Hi Everyone,

Please forgive me for the long post....

I discovered the PUA community a couple of years ago and it has been one of the most amazing discoveries I ever made and has helped me immensly. I went on a couple of boot camps in London and read loads of material and am incredibley grateful for the individuals who have contributed.

I always knew I would never be a proper PUA because it's not really in my nature, but I turned to this mainly because I was the typical 'nice guy' and was tired of being used by bad women and ignored by the good ones. Past girlfriends had drained me financially and personally and I felt I deserved happiness.

I used PUA techniques to improve my posture, body language, speaking and am very happy with what it has done for me. I have had some fantastic relationships and have not experienced the pain that they used to cause me years ago.

However I have now managed to get myself into somewhat of a pickle and would be immensely appreciative of everyone's thoughts.

I joined a Salsa class, having seen it suggested in some of Gamblers material and it enriched my life with something new and fun and I have made a lot of good friends. However a few months ago I started having chemistry with one of the girls there and I have to say she has turned out to be someone I think a lot of. The problem is that when I first went to ask her out it turned out she was already engaged.

So I decided that was that and let things go, but to my partial delight she made it very obvious she liked me, I learned how unhappy she was with her current boyfriend (who works away frequently an ignores her) and we started to develop a bond and started talking regularly. This is something new to me, I do not come on to other guys girls as a rule!

However it has been a month now and we have moved on steadily until we are now in continuous contact and sleeping with each other and she is showing all the signs that she is in love with me. The fact that she is living with another man and cannot see me all the time seems to be causing her a lot of pain.

I have kept my distance and tried to maintain my sanity, but now know that she either has to leave him and start a relationship with me, or I have to back off. But I really think she is such a wonderful person, I truly beleive her when she says she has never cheated before and we seem an incredible match. So if I'm honest i do not want to lose her to someone who mistreats her.

What does everyone think I should do? Suggestions? I'm not in love yet, but do not want to lose someone I feel is really special, should I back off?

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CC

I've always taken the view that 'alls fair in love and war' so basically if you can't treat your girl right someone else can and will.

Its a tough predicament but before you do anything I think you should try see past the haze for a moment and realise that however much of a nice person she is she is not being so nice to one particular person at the moment, who, could in turn end up being you at a later date. I'm not saying this is what will happen but if she can do that to him then why can't she do that to you. Women are great at using words and have become masters at telling us what we want to hear so its always best to read between the lines.

Weigh it up and if she's the one the snap her up as fast as you can. If shes not then leave her to it as it wouldnt be fair for her to finally split with this guy just to find out you only wanted what you couldnt have and now you can you're not interested.

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It ain't no fun if my homie's can't have none...

Thats excellent advice thanks.

Funny enough, similar to what first ran through my mind when we first started chatting. 3 days after she'd asked for my phone number and we'd started texting, she invited me out somewhere. I declined and said that was something she should go with her boyfriend and she replied with 'No he's just hurtfull and never takes interest in anything I do, he's history after much discussion'.

To be honest that's kind of what has kept my interest there. If it was not for that line I would have given up after a week. But now it's been a month, and last week things went to a whole new level with us ending up in bed... (which I confess did feel great....)

Regarding whether she does this a lot? We share a few common friends and they all think she's 100%, though none of them know what we've been up to so I suppose I cannot be sure... But I feel pretty confident that she's not a cheater as a rule and think that our getting together is the product of his neglect and our suitability for each other...

I am also pretty sure I am not going to waste her time. We've actually known each other for a year and there's always been a kind of chemistry but we never spent enough time together to explore it. Over the last month it's just gone crazy - but... like you say though nothings certain and after another month things could always go pear shaped... but we share so many common interests and have such similar outlooks on life. Certainly a pickle I've got us into!

One thing to add. After 1 week of the chatting I actually said I was not comfrotable with persuing someone who is not single and stopped talking to her altogether. She said she understood and said lots of nice things about me (you're a gentleman etc... blah blah). I thought that was it.

It took 2 days and she messaged me with a general hows it going, I replied and re-affirmed what I said before and then she said Phew and admitted that the last 24 hours had felt like a week because she's missed me so much. From there we just picked back up where we'd left off...

I don't want to hurt the other guy either, he seems like a bit of a wally but has done nothing wrong other than ignore her and neglect her, which is not really a reason to dislike him. Every day that goes by is meaning it will perhaps hurt him more or worse - screw her up!

This is the bit that's puzzling me. Ideally I'd like to her to decide she wants me only, but only if her relationship with her ex is over for the right reasons.

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CC

Its a decision you can only make yourself at the end of the day mate. Here's a few questions to ask yourself which may help you decide though...

1.You're on a PU forum so you obviously have some interest in meeting a fair amount of women...Could this woman stop you meeting the thousands of interesting women the world has to offer?

2.Do you feel with this girl you will just be 'settling' or does she have everything you are looking for?

3.If you were dating more women would you still feel the same about her?

4.Have you thought of the aftermath of taking it any further and will it actually worth it? (example: things wont just be cut off with the other guy as they are engaged, texts, phone calls, him making her upset, etc, etc)

I could go on all day but in my experience relationships that start with drama such as this one are usually alot of fun but very short lived.

If it were me I would see it as another successful interaction then add her to the collection of good female friends who you get along with, go for coffee, etc, etc. You never know she may have some amazing friends

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It ain't no fun if my homie's can't have none...

You make some excellent points!

One thing I will clear up straight away is I've never being into PUA to screw loads of woman! I found PUA because I was frustrated with being used by woman and wanted to know how I could have more choice - ie. better woman. I split up with a woman in 2009 and she basically took my house, every penny I had and left me to start again. I had to do something to prevent myself ending up with a woman like that in the future. She was very beautiful, but I understand now I had been shallow and that is the only reason I had picked her and stayed with her. I had overlooked the facts that she was vain, selfish, insecure, greedy and had no consideration for me. It was as much my fault as hers.

I have always known I'll never be a hardcore PUA. But the advice here has allowed me to rebuild my life, have sensible relationships, great sex with great woman and I have ended up with a greater respect for women in general. I avoid the nasty users and persue the ones who I think are nice people and deserve my attention. I think PUA is about more than just womanisers and can be used to merely improve your choice of women and success with them.

I returned to this site because I have a problem I have never encountered before and thought it the ideal place to get advice.

I have to say unfortunately the women in question seems to resemble exactly what I want out of a woman, hence the fact that I persued her. But at the same time my ethics are on overdrive....

Anyway I suppose the answers to the questions you pose:

1) I only date woman I beleive I have a future with, when I decide we have no common ground I break it off. So this is not an issue with me.

2) No I am absolutely dazzled by her and we get on better than I can beleive. She is absolutely fantastic and I truly beleive we could be happy together. However I am trying to keep myself grounded and remind myself of the situation....

3) I only date one woman at a time. It's the only way I can function and is the way i was brought up. Obviously if I was with someone else then I would not be with her so the situation would not exist. But if it helps at the moment I want no-one else.

4) No I hadn't very good point! It's a risk I'd be willing to take, but it would be stressful I admit!

I guess I'll alter my question. So how I be about I be a bit more honest this time.

Cards on the table I want her, I do not beleive her current partner is the right person for her and though I want to minimise the amount he gets hurt I do not feel bad about it. I truly beleive a woman cannot be seduced by other men if you are looking after her yourself so I actually think it's his own fault.

I think she has already made her decision, hence why she spends what little time he is in the house out avoiding him. However she seems to be scared to do anything.

Should I just carry on like he does not exist and carry on sleeping with her etc. with the opinion that she will take care of her current relationship in her own time when she is ready.

Or should I put my cards on the table and tell her we cannot go on seeing each other until she is single? I know it would drive her crazy if I broke off contact... though that does sound cruel...

The thing is I'm 99.99 sure she's made her decision a couple of weeks ago, but which would help her to make the move I know she is so close to making?

I would rather she sat down with her current partner and explained things to him, than if he found out through someone else which would really crush him... and would probably cause her pain too!

(By the way I have nothing to fear from him so that's not an issue!)

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CC

Looks like more of a loose guideline than a rule at this point. If it was a rule, you wouldn't be in this situation right now.
She's lying to the guy she's engaged to, why wouldn't she lie to you? She's a proven liar and a proven cheater, don't give this chick more credit than she deserves. You're idealizing this woman like you did with the one in 2009 and it's going to bite you in the ass again.

I say ditch the cheater with the fiance' and keep looking for one who's not broken.

I couldn't agree more, pick-up by its very title tends to attract those who want to sleep with as many women as possible, and if pick-up helps them in their quest then why not use it. The good thing about it though is it has something for everyone and can actually change some people's lives, for others it can help them make their relationships stand out from all the rest

From your post I can see that you undoubtably feel she is the one for you. And in that case I say go get her, if you don't you may always regret it. Its just a case now as to how to do it with minimal causalities.

So whats your plan?

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It ain't no fun if my homie's can't have none...

Gotta say I am so grateful for the advice and help guys!
Thats a very good point.... I don't have a good answer, just trusting my instinct really. I hope I'm not wrong....

I really respect your advice and to be honest if I read this post you'd have me nodding with agreement. But I've dated so many women over the last two years and this is the first one I have had such genuine rapour and common interests with. It's a very frustrating situation.

I asked her if she'd ever cheated before and she said no, she'd always thought cheating was wrong and thought badly of people who did it. She said she could not work out why she had let me into her life, then said lots of nice things about me that I won't bore you guys with.

She said she just felt comfortable with me from the start, like she'd known me for years (and that may be the PUA training kicking in...) and I made her feel special and valued. She said no-one else ever took an interest in what she did (and yes I am actually interested) or seemed to understand her so well (and again yes I am interested and have made to effort).
I really don't know.... The way I see it I can only think of two options:

1) Carry on as I am, in the hope that evantually she will sort her self out and leave her current partner. The downside to this is I have to be very careful not to fall in love or I will get hurt if things go wrong.

2) Tell her I cannot continue until she is single and cut off contact with her (like I did before). This feels very risky as I could end up losing her, someone once told me that when people are in a difficult situation and have choices they usually choose to stay as they are even if they know it's the wrong choice because it's easier to do nothing.

I'm torn.... and to my disapointment I cannot think of anything else....

Well other than:

3) Pressure her to leave him.

But I feel this would not be right and could result in her having regrets...?

What are your thoughts?

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CC

d27sld: Apologies for not getting back until now, I personally wouldv'e gone for option 2 as that would be the only way I was sure she felt the same.

Any developments?

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It ain't no fun if my homie's can't have none...

Yes there are!

I went for secret option 4

I sat her down and asked her why she had found me, what was wrong with her current relationship etc. It was my intention that if she could not justify there being anything wrong I would let her be and break contact.

She told me her current relationship had been one they had rushed into, moved in together within weeks of meeting etc. and that now they have no common interests. She said they never talk and never do anything together and she felt sorry for him because he had not actually done anything wrong, but that her life felt empty and pointless. She said she felt trapped in a life with no enjoyment, but felt to guilty/ungrateful to do anything about it.

So... after much talk, I suggested the best thing was for her to move out and stay with her parents for a while. She could then let things cool off and give her current partner a chance to accept things and be ok.

In the mean time we can start to get to know each other slowly and see how things go. We have so much in common and I do think a lot of her so I'm pretty confident, but we shall see. At least I know she is doing things for the right reasons though.

I'm sure that sounds like a knightmare situation for the average PUA but I'm quite chuffed. I feel like I've kept my morals and got what I wanted. She's back with her folks at the moment and I'm gonna see how things go!

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CC

So she listened to you? That's sounds like a good thing.

Well, hoping things go their smooth way, you might get your happy ending after all.

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" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

My concern would be that you are rapidly moving into the friendzone. Long conversations, providing and ear for her complains and problems, man you are into her but you're not her therapist! She's got issues, assuming you believe a word she says. If I started talking to a girl and she said she was engaged, moved in with him after just a few weeks of being in a relationship, etc, I would be very cautious about the girl. That by itself screams clingy, throw in the fact that she cheated on her man, and it screams trouble. After all, why not just leave him if things are that bad? If she's willing to cheat she should just end the relationship and save both of them the heartache.

It takes ego to think that the girl cheating WITH you won't cheat ON you. It's a jump that I rarely make. Cheating in a relationship is a massive act of dishonesty, and it would make me question every single word a girl says to me. So she's lying to her guy about only sleeping with him, yet you think she's only telling you the truth? Look I'm glad you gained some confidence and made friends in the dance class, but you're setting up to get hurt. I would suggest you take a step back and keep a distance at least until she sorts out all of her issues. You don't have to ignore her, but no asking whats wrong, no hour long conversations about her life, etc. That's not your job.