I've said it in a few threads in the past, but I wanted to post my beliefs on the old addage that nice guys finish last.

On this forum sometimes guys say that being nice isn't alpha, it DLVs, whatever. To be honest, this bothers me. I am just not a fan of a forum where guys come for help and the wide array of advice given may include telling someone to be rude or uncaring in order to it some mold of the alpha male.

Being nice isn't bad, and I think the main issue is that everybody sees the nice guy concept as the character from a romantic comedy. He isn't just nice, he's timid and shy. The nice guy doesn't have the courage to speak his mind. That guy is a total pushover who refuses to stand up to bullies and will do anything a cute girl asks of him. That so-called nice guy thinks that he needs a woman in order to have a good life and is generally miserable, even if portrayed in a comical manner, because he is single. The fact that he's nice, helps people who are truly in need, cares about women for more than their bodies...that isn't the problem! It is very possible to be nice and polite without being a complete wuss.

You can hold a door open for a girl you date, but if she never offers to pay you are completely within your rights to confront her about it. It isn't mean to stand up to a dude that's calling you names in front of your buddies. Being the nice guy doesn't mean you sit there and take it.

I just don't want to see men who genuinely need help become douche bags because some guys can't remove the aspects of the stereotypical AFC nice guy that make them AFC. Guys, all you need is a spine when people try to take advantage of you. You're not a charity, that's true, but you don't need to be a dick to get a girl.

i think there is a difference between a positive guy and a ''nice guy''

the nice guy, doesn't get girls because HE IS NICE TO EVERYONE, he is nice to people that are rude to him, he is nice all the time, there is no social calibration, he is just nice all the time, girls think he is trying to manipulate them, when really the stereotypical nice guy, just uses being nice as a don't let the world hurt me defense mechanism, nice guys don't take risks because to do so would be un-safe

now a positive guy on the other hand that has calibration, can have massive success with women, when people try to piss on him, instead of being nice with no calibration, he tells them to go suck fat cock, when girls are starting to come onto him, he doesn't say we should wait until we had a few more dates because i respect you more then that

there is a difference between being NICE and being POSITIVE

You can still open the door for a girl and still be an ass.

Totally agree, you get a great look at her ass if you hold the door for her.

I would say that there is nothing wrong with being a Good guy but a nice guy is weak.

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If you don't like something change it... And never regret anything because at one point in your life it was exactly what you wanted.

Being a nice guy wouldn't be a problem if women didn't take advantage of this. Nowadays when girls meet a nice guy they take advantage of them simply because they can. I've seen it enough and it's sad to be honest. They think by doing all this shit for a girl and basically being her dog is gonna make her love him but the exact opposite is true.

I do agree, GameIsOn. Unfortunately a trusting nature can get you into trouble sometimes. And obviously being a pushover is not a positive thing. My point is I believe that it's better to just have as spine and be willing to recognize BS while being nice than to act like an ass. I believe both can work, but the former leaves me with a better taste in my mouth. In all reality, it works better with my personality. I'm nice, but I'm not driving across the state for a chick. If a girl tells me she broke up with her bf, I will say I'm sorry to hear. But I'm not listening to her complain for an hour...not her damn therapist.

I am going to settle this now. There is a stark difference between being the good guy and the nice guy. Nice guy is Beta, good guy is the ideal Alpha.

"Nice guy"--eager to please, Beta, non-confrontational, passive-aggressive, lets his frame be taken over by someone else's, kind, sensitive, and emotionally expressive. His emotional state affects his judgement and vision. Allows his boundaries to be infringed upon on a consistent basis. Lacks confidence. Lack of ambition and assertiveness. Allows circumstance to dictate his actions. Weak.

"Good guy"--- Shows tremendous integrity, has his own frame autonomous of personal opinion, strong presence of mind, emotionally aware and able to empathize without it affecting his vision and desired outcome, easy going, DEPENDABLE without sacrificing autonomy. Is aware of his boundaries within any relationship and does not allow infringement. Confident without being arrogant (there is a big difference). Ambitious and assertive without being overly aggressive. Is autonomous of circumstance and outcome.

I mean this is a question of what is truly masculine. It doesn't mean complete stoicism, or being a hard ass, it's ok to be a dude that everyone loves as long as you don't sacrifice it all because you WANT to be loved.