Girl

Nice, cutesy, pleasant looking girl. Very good character. Conservative. Slightly childish and immature, but intelligent, even though she doesnt think so.

Situation

To cut a long story short, I asked her to be my girlfriend, she rejected. Reasons: broke up with her boyfriend of few months and not ready to accept another relationship. mother divorced, grew up without father. have alot of friends who have divorced parents. She is not affected by not having a father, however sees that relationships is not for her. Afraid to end up unhappy. But. i like her and she likes me, said so herself.

Problem

Asked her a few times to give us a chance. Gave her a lot of logical reasons to do so. ( if detailed conversations are needed tell me) But she needs time, and she doesnt know how much time she needs. I am trying to make myself believe she is a 90% lost cause, as I cannot possibly wait forever, but i will still date her. She is a little bit of a one itis for me, but I am trying not to allow that to happen.

Kino doesnt work too well. She doesnt let me hold her hand(completely) cos I think i am not her boyfriend and she wont allow it. I tried not holding her hand, even putting it back to its original position to show that i dont really care, but it doesnt really work, and subsequent attempts to hold her hand yields the same result.
But i can put her head on my shoulder and touch her face.

She says sorry and she is really confused, and she really doesnt know how long she will need. I think there is a chance if i wait it out, but how long must i wait?

Need advice

Please tell me what I should do or even say.

First off holding her hand as kino in the lower stages means for like 5-20 seconds, if you try to hold it for more than a minute she'll think you own her (as a gf). idk if thats wut ur doing but thats my advice incase you are. Second she will continue to be hard to get, because she can have you as a backup while she looks for other guys (the quoted part is why your a backup). If you ask once and get rejected, its normal, ask twice and get rejected, time to get a hint. Dont do that, ever. First off dont bring logic into dating, second dont ask and explain yourself. It is her PRIVILEGE TO DATE YOU, not your really desperate plz plz date me. I assume you have her number, keep her in touch with you, but dont limit your time yourself to just her, find someone else incase the worst happens. (im not saying freeze her, although others might, im just saying dont devote all your time here) I hope you get what i mean it sounds a bit worse than I tried to make it sound

she doesn't like you at the moment, freeze her out play more numbers, get better notice patterns, re-initiate contact after freeze out, see if you got good enough, if not rinse and repeat, the more you chase the more she will not be into you, your only fucking yourself over,

YOU NEED TO, NEED TO, NEED TO

get with other girls so you can stop obessing over a girl who isn't interested in you, just get over it

Put her in the 100% lost cause column.

Thanks guys for all your replies.

@charblad:

I have managed to kino her to hugging and punching(playfully) her face and stuff. however its holding hands that is strictly off limits. and yea, your right about the more than one minute part. cos i tried to play a little 'game'. we were sitting down and i take her hand and slowly try to put each finger into the gap of her fingers. 1st two were ok and the last was really hard and she didnt allow it basically. and she said no and stuck out her tongue lol.

I dont think shes looking for another backup, cos she is just afraid of being disapointed again. Also, being logical is one of my strengths and actually makes me seem smart lol. But i guess i cannot use it to help her make emotional decisions?

Also, I get that I need to kiv her and continue looking. thanks

@pumpington
I dunno what you mean by freeze out. absolututely no contact including sms and facebook? do i wait for her to reinitiate contact?(if she does) how long do i freeze her out. 3 days or a week. but i also understand that there is no hard or fast rule.

@ProfessorX
I once made a mistake of putting a girl in a lost cause just cos she had a boyfriend. this is way before i knew anything about pua stuff. also, where i come from, a boyfriend = lost cause, most of the time.and she broke up with her boyfriend months later, and cos i didnt continue building rapport cos i thought she was a lost cause, so i really lost a great chance. anyway, i cannot make the same mistake again cos i might have a chance. i know this sounds afc but i really think there is a small small chance. anyway shes in my 90% lost cause already. thanks for your help

lol its not that she's looking for a backup its that she had one given to her. (btw punchin her in the face? LUL)
Yes about the logic, you can logically learn how to control others emotions though.
freeze out means what you said, no contact (unless she initiates it and you really wanna talk, go AFC if that happens tho)
freeze her until your stable again. (and knowing girls, you dont have to worry about her reinitiating it...)
because of what you said i suggest a new category, "side project"
Don't devote time and energy into this, just free time and free energy, if your busy - shes in lost cause, if you doing absolutly nothing - shes someone to talk to

haha, yea, punching her face cos im a bit childish too lol.

so i told her something about i notice single people grow old when all their friends get married and will put the single people in the low priority list. and how i found it sad that these people will actually get a dog as a companion. and when she looks back, she will realise that she wasted her life when she was young. this is among other of the logical crap which i said. which i actually believe btw, and it applies to the above example as well.

anyway what do u mean by go afc when that happens? when what happens?

i dont have to worry about her reinitiaiting it means she will definitely reinitiate?

yea, shes now a side project. i totally agree lol, has to be that way. sad but true

This hurts me to kill your optimism so much lol...
When you freeze her is when you go AFC, it means if she txt you "hi" wait at least 10 minutes and just go "hey", that will eaither kill the conversation or she'll go "hows your day?" and you'll just say "good". the point is that your not going "my day is getting better now that im talking to you, how is your day? i hope your having a good time!" - get it? (also that logical statement was way too long to, double whammy, dont have a logical conversation over txt lol)

This is the optimism killer, no she really wouln't re-initiate. Unless she's like head over heels calls you to hear your voice, shes not gunna txt you first. (blunt ik)

Lastly its sad they get a dog? I have 4 dogs

wow. u sure about going afc for text. it seems to me like she will think she reinitiated(if she does) for nothing and why did she even bother. can i at least say good, hows yours. instead of just 'good'. at least i must show a tiny interest as well right?

btw the logical conversation was face to face. and errr, i mean hamsters not dogs lol. i have 2 dogs myself. haha

if your freezing her you dont get to pick and choose. women like what they dont understand, im sure she woulnt understand why your AFC (anyways she might want to talk to you more so she'll understand why your afc), right when the ? marks come up stop txting (your supposed to do this when your not freezing a girl sometimes too) "wat?" "why are you like this?" "huh?" because answering those are worse than not answering them.

hey. thanks for your replies so far. i really appreciate it.

but if i stop texting her when the questions marks start coming out, wont she ask even more questions? im not going to reply anything? and so normally a person replies then u answer right. the conversation normally stops when someone stops replying. rarely do u get 2 messages before u yourself reply.(hope u get what im saying)

No my brain shut down, anyways i can read the first sentence XD.
She's not gunna ask why your not txting her...trust me
and some1 stops replying so the txting stops, yes thats what you want lol

confusing man. why will i want the texting to stop when i want her. and when she showed interest in me.

Pumpington said it better than i can

here is how it is man,
when a girl is not attracted to you and you are attracted to her,
you explain you are, she says she doesn't feel the same way,
you continue pursuing her,you start demonstrating to her that you are desperate,
you have low ''survivability'', guys want looks, girls want survivability,
your ability to adapt, and survive, how many people you got in your social circles,
how good looking you are, how physically dominant/fit you are, how much money/material possessions you have acquired, how many women want to have your kids, how much life experience you have, how sure of yourself you are when you make decisions, how willing you are to take risks, how many people look up to you and admire you, how resilient you are in the face of pressure/defeat

all these things will make you attractive to women, looks do matter, if anyone tells you different they are retarded, but looks are not the main factor for women

you can start by learning active frame control, the person who is asking the questions, telling people what to do and controlling the subject and context of the conversation is in control of the frame, stop doing what people tell you to do, start doing what you want, and tell people what you want of them

STOP CARING WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT YOU,
DO WHAT YOU WANT,

the more you seem desperate to her, the more she will not want you, you are demonstrating you ''NEED HER'' instead of want her but are indifferent to the outcome, if you were highly survivable you could have any girl you wanted, and would not ''NEED'' any one specific girl, girls pick up on this, and it turns them off like crazy

if you want to see if a girl will be with you, all you have to do is attempt to get her to qualify, (telegraph interest in being with you, ask her to offer reasons why she would *qualify* to be with you) if she does this, next ask her to come to your house to watch a movie, or come out with you alone, if she does both of these things, continuously try to kiss her (on the fucking lips too none of this cheek/hug shit)

one of two things will happen, she will either start kissing you back, or become irritated and start moving more in the direction of cutting contact with you and removing herself from being around you, that is it, it is that simple, after a while you will realize it is not a big deal to kiss a girl without asking, most of them don't do anything, they don't go grab knives and stab you, they don't get their guns and start shooting, they don't break your nose for showing interest in them, usually at worst they just pull away and say SORRY I DON'T FEEL THAT WAY ABOUT YOU, that is more or less the usual worst case scenario,

you need to go out, stop talking to this girl for at least a month, and go try again on other girls, treat getting a girl like a video game, you should be able to have sex with them with in 1 week of meeting them, if you honestly try, if you can't do it within one week, or they show dis-interest in you, NEW GAME, NEW GIRL, cut contact with that girl for 2 weeks to a month, (consider 2 weeks a restart on the video game you can re-try with that girl) eventually you will just notice things you keep doing that are not working well, you will fix these things and naturally develop better calibration while dealing with girls, you stop giving a fuck more, it doesn't matter,

now please, FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, CUT FUCKING CONTACT WITH THIS GIRL, make your goal getting 10 new girls in your phone, always keep 10 fresh girls in your phone, if you ever find you are giving one girl any more interest then any of the others and you have not had sex with her, then your doing it wrong, attempt to having sex with all 10 at the same time (try to be getting all of them to come out, try to be flirting with all of them)

WELCOME TO THE GAME