I'm not talking about a nice guy who's just generally not an asshole to people for example: You tell the local supermarket clerk to have a good day or you help an old man push his car that just broke down.

I'm talking about the "I would do anything for you" "You're so beautiful" the bland/boring/doormat nice that HBs love to walk on and treat like shit then wonder why they're single mothers later in life =) Yeah, it's a shitty system but that's how society has shaped the majority of the women to want the bad unobtainable boys because someone who has a lot of attention is much more attractive than that loner guy who will treat you right.

So, if you were EVERY this guy at a point in your life, is there any specific thing you did to break it? How did you completely break free from it?

I'm trying but I notice sometimes when I'm being the casual guy who DGAF what they think (it works) but sometimes something cheesy or "nice guyish" will come out and that's like either starting over from square one or getting FZed just from one line (Friend Zoned).

start being your own best friend--be a bit more selfish,do things for yourself rather than to please others,

It's important to maintain some moral decency, but the key word here is SELFISH.

The world is cold. Being passive-aggressive get's you nowhere.

The people that make an impact are the one's who don't care what others think, and go out there, GRABBING that opportunity at hand.

I know exactly how you feel, but it comes with maturity, and age, so don't fret about it.

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"Ignorance is bliss."

''I know exactly how you feel, but it comes with maturity, and age,''

And reading the selfish gene and the red queen

Yeah, the red queen and the selfish gene are definitely books every aspiring PUA should read.
Besides that, I revel in sarcasm. DeAngelo's Cocky Comedy stuff helps, and it's really congruent with how I naturally am, so you can come off as being an asshole, but in a joking way so they don't think you're a douche.

Self confidence helps a lot too, don't take things to heart, know yourself and what you want and don't settle for less.

I hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Bitch for dumping him."

I see on here self-professed nice guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "nice guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with nice guys? The biggest problem is that most nice guys are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a nice guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "nice guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many nice guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "nice guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A nice guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only I can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy needs to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a nice guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake nice guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because nice guys are "helpers". A nice guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that nice guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often nice guys mistake obsession for "love".

INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

Once I became confident is when I became good at this. Don't be harsh with a woman, but don't treat her better then you'd treat anyone else. Once you've accomplished that, your game with women will improve, your state of mind will improve, and your life in general will improve.

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You all take 'er easy. And if she's easy, take her twice.

I was the worst. My mother hates everyone, especially guys. So I was rased as a total toe sucking mommas boy. complete failure with girls through high school until I started dating a girl who was an absolute fucking psychopath. I put up with more shit than I ever care to admit outloud. Some of the straws (not even the ones that broke my back) were hooking up with my friends but never me, lies upon lies, going to my prom just to hook up with someone elses date... yeah there's plenty worse.

But it wasnt until my first college girlfriend when I started being sexually active when the exact same shit started happening again that I realized the frist rule.

#1, ALL BITCHES ARE HOES

So I moped around looking for a girl who wasn't like that. Someone who didn't prove me right. Finally I met a girl who was amazing. She even broke it off with her on/off boyfriend from home so we could be togther. I was smitten, hooked, i was truly in love. Then suddenly and completely unexpectedly she dumped my ass 6 months later when school was over and she returned home for the summer and got back with her man. I was used, like a toy... I fell for it.

#2, NEVER forget #1, if you do it's your own damn fault. (I am the fucking problem.)

So there I was, heart broken, angry, bitter and sick of bullshit. The pain was excrutiating, intollerable. I was in blackness. I had to stop the pain. So i killed it. Dead. My heart was locked in a safe and burried. It was my turn to fight back.

Suddenly dating became a fun game. I had no emotional investment, so there was nothing to loose.

girlA: "will you drive me to the mall?"
me: "will you blow me on the way there?"
girlA: "uhm, I don't think so"
me: "then NO."

girlB: "I know you wanted to see AWESOMEMOVIE, but my friend and I want to see GAYASSHITMOVIE"
me: "enjoy it, see ya later"

me: "wanna hang out?"
girlC: "do you mind if my friend comes"
me: "yes"
girlC: "eww, why?"
me: "because I doubt she will wan't to watch what I'm going to do to you"
girlC: "omg! what do you mean"
me: "unless you are into freaky shit like that, I'm down"
girlC: "you're terrible!"
me: "damn right."

And so on. Literally I had to assasinate my beliefe that girls actually deserved being nice to. And suddenly something clicked. The more of a dick I was, the more ass I pulled. One after another, easier and easier the less I gave a shit.

Then I pulled the best girl I thought I could get. She was young, innocent, a blank slate. For the first time in a long time I was excited there might be something worth opening up to. So I did.

BAD IDEA. Guess what, the more I opened up, the more she was a bitch and hoe (RULE #2). But she taught me a few things (unintentionally).

A) You can appreciate and respect a girl without having to put up with her shit
B) You are more attractive to a girl the less you care what she thinks
C) To be truly happy in life, you have to be volnerable, just do so with caution.

I started to realize I was using them. litterally inside I was using each and every girl to make myself feel better that they were below me and would bow to my whim. It was partially responsible for her being a total bitch/hoe and rightfully so. The more I pushed, the more they pushed back.

So then I learned rule #3

#3, Women are to be respected, appreciated and feared, but NOT submitted to. (Fear in the sense they are capable of ANYTHING)


After that, my relationships were healthy. Fights seemed useless and rarely happen, great sex abounds, and most of all my heart is wide open and happy.

So to answer your question, follow the 3 rules, let go of control and just enjoy the ride.

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"Would it be wrong to join sexaholics anonymous to pick-up chicks?" "...yes, and stop eating that baby."

-Psych3r-

Let me preface this by saying I'm not an expert. I'm new to the game, I don't have much going for me, and I'm a chronically nice guy. I've had decent success on my own in the past, but I'm no PUA. I'm emotionally repressed, and I've got a stack of issues you wouldn't believe.

I have been reading up on PUA techniques, and I found a word for what I did to start breaking myself free. It's "Inner Game". It's how you feel about yourself. I've seen other PUA's at work, and they do mental tricks to themselves, so when they walk into the situation, they know they are The Most Interesting Person In The Room.

You need to do something similar to yourself. You don't have to be a dick to attract women, but you do need to break free. What my friend the PUA noticed about me was that I could cut loose and command attention, if the situation was right. And commanding attention is the opening move in anyone's game.

What I try to do is remember the situations where I feel free to let loose, and hold onto that mindset. I'm still "nice", but I'm not "the nice guy" anymore. I give myself permission to be more than what I let myself. I can be The Most Interesting Person In The Room, if I let myself.

Work on your inner game. Don't be afraid to let yourself loose.

the trick is,
step one, don't care about what other people think

step two, do what you want,

now this is the whole premisis of pickup for me when it comes to mindsets, often girls will test you on this congruence test, shit test, w/e you call it, DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT, if a girl asks you to do something and it is not in your interest and you don't want to do it, DONT FUCKING DO IT THEN, (she says hey will you buy me this, answer is no, or why, or will you do Xthing for me (usually if they say yes ill get them to do it then still not do what they want)) but also if your trying to just never do anything for a girl just cause she asked like the act of you just defying her all the time conciously will gain massive attraction then your stupid, if you actually want to do something then do it, the important thing is, DO WHAT YOU WANT(step 1), and DONT CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK (step 2)

the answer to the original poster's question for me was:

let that part of you that believes in foolish things die.

after that, everything falls into place.

without that, you'll be a fool forever.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

I know exactly what you're talking about. The first girl I had a crush on, and when I finally confessed it to her, told me "But you're such a nice guy. And we're such great friends. I don't wanna ruin that. Can't we ignore this and be good,close friends?"

Well, I could barely nod enough and she went off to screwing the guy she was with. Lesson learnt was this : The more you care and let her know you do, the more she considers you 'safe' and eventually, you'll become her go-to guy for everything but romance. It's a hard position to be in. Now, I look back and find my behavior disgusting.

Anyway, one day I just decided to stop feeling. Like pulling the plug on people and emotions.

And, it became easy. Very easy. I just never felt a damn thing for the outcomes of my actions regarding women. Rejection? 'Okay'. Success? Still just an 'Okay'.

In other words,the biggest mistake guys make when trying to meet women is being overzealous, overinvested.

Here's how I succeeded: I had to have confidence in myself, while simultaneously accepting that it could just as easily have been some other guy.

And that's an insane thought process when you think about it. But, once you've integrated that thought with your mind. NOTHING will phase you.

No woman, mermaid, nymph or goddess because you won't care.

The world will be burning, but it won't change a thing for you.

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" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

I've had some time to think about what went wrong in previous attempts(and a hell lot of them I can tell you) at "courtship" (a term which has a very different meaning to me now) and realizing most of them resulted in termination not just as a potential suitor but even as a friend with these wimmin because I was being the nice guy. I remember even telling a girl: "I haven't got the money right now but what I have I'll spend on you.

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Ex-name: stelphie, origin: a combination of 'Steph', an HB I had one-itis on at the time of registration; and 'Selphie', a videogame character I thought was hot.

The thing that really helped me (but I shouldn't recomend that you do that, cause it almost killed me) was when I started my acrobatics training and there was a group of us, who were just doing fucked up shit, like we trained ourselves, no profesionl supervision (we learned it from YT ).

So when we started off, like doing backflips, rolls, spinnings and that stuff, we were really fucked up. One guy from some forum said that we should do one move for at least half a year on mattresses before trying it on grass, We were doing it on concrete within a month and when we posted our videos on internet, so many people started to talking that we were the most fucked up insane motherfuckers that they've met and we kinda started believe in that... so what do we do, we kept doing this.

And this is where it got interested, we weren't really that good, but it pushed me way out of my comfort zone. I remember one day I was preforming flips in front of my high school and everybody was watching, like I made a bet with some dude that I can make a backflip and he called everybody on the windows to watch. So I did... failed a backflip (landed it on my ass), everybody laughed, but I was at such a delusion that I'm the shit, I'm the only one on our school who has the balls to do that, so I did it again and again and again until I landed it square.
That's just one of the stories that I have through this period of my life, which was freaking awsome, until I landed a flip on my neck and alomst broke it, so if you're going to do this, PLEASE get a profesional trainer.

BUT here's the concept I PUSHED FOR COMFORTZONE, cause I thought that I fit into that frame of being crazy (and that was a cool frame for me) I did it and I didn't looked back at what anyone else was thinking of me.
Now that frame was the base for another frame that was born in me soon after that and that was the frame of 'I have the balls' (I was doing something that other people were scared off) and I also came up with the frame when some new situation emerged and I was scared of it, I was like: "Fuck that shit, I did backflips in my days." COMPLETLEY DELUSIONAL, but it helped me.

If I make a summary of my experience with your inital question:
I did something (unordinary) that set good frame for me that good frame made me feel confident (cause I was getting a good emotion from the thing that I loved, but everybody else hated it) and that confidence then setted new frames that started clicking in my mind when I was talking to a girl and she said/did something that I see incompatible with my reality and I said to myself "no here's my line she wants me to drag over it, but that's the line that I don't cross cause of my experiences/feelings/characteristics/..."

So like I said try new things and push for your comfort zone (btw don't become an asshole or anything) and that'll built you internaly, from where you'll show that externaly.

But that's just me

see ya around

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How my life looks like right now: STUDY HARD, PARTY HARD