I went on a second date this evening and it's always the same thing - a nice time BUT I can never seem to initiate touch. Tonight I didn't even hug goodnight. I'm starting to realize that if she doesn't initiate the touch it never gets initiated with me (this is true across the board, not just this one date).

The thing is that I have become great at conversation during dates. I listen really well and connect with their stories and always have a follow-up question. I also remember what they say and bring it up later. I intersperse humor in. I've always done this naturally - not just with women.

So I do really well at conversation but horribly bad at kino. This always tosses me into the friend zone with the women I really want.

Are there any tips for getting more comfortable with initiating touch? It's like I think women have a force field around them.

Start with outer arm touches and punching their shoulders (lightly) teasingly. When she's comfortable, proceed to putting your arm around her shoulder when you're walking. Then grabbing her arm, leading the way..

I'm comfortable with Kino now. My problem is, sometimes I just feel the girls aren't.

Another great advice is practice on your female friends. I did that and it gave me an Aha like: "Oh I didn't know it was that easy."
I can touch girls in the knees now!

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Ex-name: stelphie, origin: a combination of 'Steph', an HB I had one-itis on at the time of registration; and 'Selphie', a videogame character I thought was hot.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ the above is pretty much correct, but its important to remember to take away your touching. The reason that you shouldnt be afraid to touch a girl is because you can always take it away the second she starts to feel uncomfortable. The more you do this, the more she's gonna want you to touch her again.....

But aside from touching, a BIG reason your falling into the friend zone is because you're not HITTING ON THE GIRL! You just have a nice conversation but never actually express real interest in her the way a man is supposed to be interested in a woman.

I forgot to add that basically what I'm saying is you have to qualify. On every date I go on I tell the girl WHY I like her. Sometimes I'll even just be like "You know why I like you..for one thing you're fuckin adorable. But aside from that blah blah blah (then Ill say something about their personality that I like"

But the bottom line is you cant just have a conversation and expect it to go somewhere. You gotta epxress real interest in her and then you'll never be in the friends zone again.

Agreed fully. I'm not doing enough to show attraction. It does get me somewhere sometimes (as I've had plenty of girlfriends) but it hasn't worked with someone I really want to go after so my relationships never work.

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that. I only hold a touch a second at most. For example, you did the shoulder touch/ playful punch thing while saying something cocky-funny or a neg and she's giggling, showing interest, you then proceed to grab her arm or put your arm around her shoulder, walking saying: "Let's go get a drink." or something like that. When she's walking with you, not showing resistance, you let go. No reason to lock on when she's complying.

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Ex-name: stelphie, origin: a combination of 'Steph', an HB I had one-itis on at the time of registration; and 'Selphie', a videogame character I thought was hot.

When it comes to touching a girl I'm usually going direct at it. Meaning just grab her hand, or put your hand in her hair and smell it. You can feel and see if a girl is open for you taking such initiative.

Last night I k-closed a girl who I have spoken to for a few minutes, complementing her hair, grabbing it and pulling her head back. Just a quick pull, not to hard.