This story gets juicy (literally) but you need to hear some backstory first:

So my best friend ever is a lesbian (I'm a straight single guy) and she's got a girlfriend. We hang out platonically all the time and sometimes we flirt a little - what you could call 'playing around' I guess but we both know where we stand in terms of our sexuality... or so we think. 

I've hooked up (kissing mostly) with this friend of mine a few years back when she was straight and she's been going out with her current girlfriend for a bit over a year. 

NOW here's where it gets crazy. So we're sitting in my car after hanging out one night - nothing particularly different from the normal. And we're just talking like normal and being silly.

But then shit gets weird.  

It's cold so we turn up the heater really warm and then she rests her head on my lap and before we know it my hand is deep in her pants and she's moaning. 

Not much time passes, but enough to make a deal about it when she yells "Fuck!" and directly asks me to drive her home. 

At this point I just start up the car... slowly ... As I'm still trying to work out what the Fuck just happened. I begin driving and she's already on the phone to her girlfriend. Shit is bad because I've just assisted her in cheating on her girlfriend (who I'm decent friends with). 

I drive her back to her place all the while she's just calling anyone who will pickup and talking about nothing special. 

When I drop her off she doesn't want to talk citing how in love she is with her girlfriend. She is. I go home and get a call an hour later where we have a short and relatively calm discussion. Basically our friendship is on hold because she doesn't trust me and now I dont really trust her either. She said she didn't enjoy kissing me at all - but I think the way she acted begs to differ. I do know she really does love her girlfriend. And that she doesn't like me more than a friend (perhaps a defence mechanism for the guilt of cheating?) So I'm not sure either. She was going to tell her girlfriend that I tried to make a move on her and keep what actually happened quiet. 

So here's where I need some help guys. I know I don't have many posts but help a bro out! I'm currently interstate for a week so I've got some time to formulate a response. I was thinking of writing a letter and giving it to her personally because that would let me say everything I want to say. But maybe I should memorize a speech instead? Either way it's a difficult situation and I want to be prepared so I don't fuck up. 

So here's what i want as the outcome of our next discussion:
* I want to stay best friends with her and to reestablish trust
* I want her to stay with her girlfriend (who I am friends with and is a good match for my friend)
* I want her to consider me as a future partner and/or to admit she has feelings for me as more than a friend but that she shouldnt act on them right now (since her current relationship is great)

I'm counting on you guys for any advice on what to say, how to say it and even any books on persuasion/communication/convincing writing. 

Thank you!

Wait wait so how the hell did your hands get in her pants? Was there a shitload of foreplay going on? Was she pretending to suck your dick and leading you on? How the hell does your hand just happen to get into the pants of your BEST FRIEND lol.

You need to talk to her directly. I dont suggest writing a letter because thats her reading it and even though it might be from the heart, you can easily portray it from the heart in a much better fashion when you talk to her in person. You BOTH fucked up and you have to make her realize it or else she is eventually going to start believing her own lie and your friendship will be ruined forever.

Hope This helped maybe a little bit. Ill stay updated!

yeah you're in a situation ive never been before so its hard to give advice.. but i would suggest talking to her directly or else it will become awkard between you two. tell her you want to stay best friends. continue the flirting and shit after things blow over to attract her and think of you as a future partner and what not. best of luck my man

Thank you for the replies guys. I really appreciate it. They have given me a couple of ideas.

I didnt get into the specific details because I guess I felt a bit guilty telling anyone about this. It is a secret and I promised to her and to myself that I wouldn't tell anyone about it. But since this is anonymous and for the better of our relationship, I'll fill you all in on the details.

I guess I didn't mention that I actually like this girl as more than a friend. I don't have oneitis as I've been still actively meeting new girls but this one friend of mine is truly a near perfect match for me in my eyes.

here's the full story:

So we had just seen a movie at the cinema at night (romantic comedy) which wasn't out of the norm. We had done that before and as a gay girl it's just two friends seeing a movie. She held my hand for a bit during the movie (she sometimes flirts in ways like this) and i often pretend to not like it / pull away so as to intensify her feelings and get her to do it more.

She wanted to hang out afterwards so I started driving to me house (again fairly normal behavior).

But the car on the way home was where it amped up.

She turned the heater up as hot as it would go and then she started meowing and showing her neck to me. She was leaning over to me side of the car and I was playing with her hair. It was getting really warm. I was getting near home and I thought she was acting different so I pulled over and suggested we take a nap (the heat was making us tired) that's when she leaned on me and I turned off the car with the heater still on.

And her neck was just there. She was trying to get warm infront of the car heater. I started playing with her hair as she was resting on my knee.

At this point I hesitated. I asked myself: is this happening? Is she waiting for me to make a move? I really didnt know what to do. We've bitten each other in 'play' before so I either just went and bit her neck or I said: "you're confusing me [girl]". To which she replied "why?" and I don't recall my response - maybe thats when I bit her.

From here things just escalated slowly. I kept kissing and biting her neck to which she didn't even flinch. (I just realised how fucked up this is). It was a strange angle but I moved onto the lower part of her chin, cheeks - my hands wandered as I did so. She was talking about semi-trivial things quickly - I think it was a nervous thing. She naturally talks a lot as well.

I paused from time to time resting my head on her chest and shoulder.

At one point I asked her how her girlfriend would feel if I kissed her and she laughed and said "she would be angry". So Fucked up.

I kept telling her I wouldnt kiss her (meaning not on the lips) all while inching closer to her mouth and exploring her.

The "breakpoint" came really REALLY suddenly.

you've probably had this before but we started breathing quicker and quicker in sync so that I could feel her warm breath. Then everything happen. My hand slid downwards and it went from there. No reistance. except I kept my word and didnt kiss her... well I might have once my hand got busy. But not before that.

My arm is cut deep from where she dug her nails into me.

And she just stopped because I guess she started thinking about her gf.

Last time we talked on the phone as I mentioned, she said she didn't enjoy it and she didn't like me as more than a friend... Yet she was definitely moaning at the time. I think she also said she was picturing her girlfriend in her head.

We are very comfortable talking to one another - we are very like minded people - but I don't understand her rationale for this situation. It can't be possible for her to have zero feelings for me can it?

Please tell me what you think. Even if you just think it's all fucked.


Ps. Writing on my iPhone while I'm interstate. Lol.

she's def. not a lesbian, shes bi but is prob more into women.

i say you should hit it but dont expect anything.

Dude dude dude, you are looking at this all wrong. Her being a doughnut bumper has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this...at all, none, zero, zilch, notta!!!

This was textbook seduction and a chick "forgetting" she had a partner..period. Replace the word girlfriend with boyfriend and you have a textbook pick up complete with comfort/rapport/, kino, arousal and a dose of LMR at the end that you completely missed and blew it.

Here is a little lesbian 101. Most lesbians are not the man-hating, bull-dykes that people think of. The man-haters are either so fat and gross that no man will have them so they turn to women or they have been molested by their mom's boyfriend so they have a beef with men and have turned to women. Most natural lesbians still like a stiff dick now and then and still have a natural attraction and are subject to arousal by males. Think of them as sexual, not homo or heterosexual.

In your case you have had a long term emotional connection and you are hanging out with this chick and at some point you let your guard down and so your natural game came out and you flirted with this chick whether you intended to or not and she was comfortable enough that when the kino started she started to get aroused.

When you went into her pants she realized where things were going and came down with a textbook case of LMR and maybe a little ASD. You blew it by breaking the set and taking her home and dropping her off. If you had played it like any other LMR you would be writing a lay report right now instead of bellyaching about how to keep yourself in the friendzone with some carpet muncher.

Here is my advice, play this one like a swinger since she has a commited partner. At this point do NOTHING. When you get home and you bump into her again, play it like everything is cool and you are still buddies and that nothing unusual happened. If she brings it up or acts wierd just tell her that you think she is an attractive and desirable woman and it was all natural and that you still like her and value her friendship.

If she says anything about her relationship HONOR and RESPECT her relationship and say you will not do anything to come between them or cause them any discomfort.

BUT -

Offer to her that if she and her girlfriend would like to have a man join them that you would respect their relationship and keep everything strictly between the 3 of you and that you will go to your grave with that knowledge.

BETTER YET -

Read Style's account of the Dual Induction Massage method of seducting two women together in the book The Game. That does work if done properly. The key is you are getting them to touch and arouse and seduce each other while you are physically present with them.

Again, her orientation has NOTHING absolutely NOTHING to do with any of this. This is nothing more than a pickup and seduction that fell short of the mark because you choked during some textbook LMR.

Stay in the game and play this out.

this is entirely wrong and you are categorizing a broad group of people. lesbians are born lesbian and have no sexual attraction to men similar to gay men.

on the other hand, a woman who can get sexually aroused by males is bi, not a lesbian.

think of it as gay men who have had dad issues, have had girlfriends, been married or fuck women here and there for fun- these dont mean that they are straight or are not reasons they are gay.

How should i have played it out? I agree with her textbook forgetting about her partner though I dont believe I blew the LMR. She gave me some LMR when I let my hands wander downwards before we started breathing quick - she said "naughty" and moved my hands away. I overcame that later.

And when I drove her home. I didn't do it right away. I took a while to start and then on the way home I also pulled into a sidestreet to wait for her to finish her call so we could talk but she was on there for a while. The last thing I wanted to do was scare her and make her think I was going to try something else or even sexually harass her (it was dark in the streets and we were alone). I wasn't going to yell at her to drop the phone when she was talking to her gf either. That would have just thrown alarm bells.
She's going to want to hang out and talk about it, and I'm only in town for a few days before I go to another city again (busy month). So I might have to organize the meeting or I won't see her for another week. She will probably be quite stressed. she's going to ask me if I like her as more than a friend - so you want me to tell her I do and that I still want to be friends? How should I react when she says she doesn't like me as more than a friend?
I think what you have suggested contradicts itself. If I tell her that I value her friendship and respect her relationship then saying "I would be interested in joining you for a threesome" is completely disrespectful. It shows that I don't really believe her relationship is real. It's going to make any attempt to reestablish trust just seem like a stab to get in her pants.

As for the Dual Inducton Massage. I do remember that in the book and I think it could work however I don't often see them in a situation where it could possibly happen. It will be especially difficult now since she will probably be trying to distance her girlfriend from me, and her girlfriend is being told a lie about what happened too.

I like the ideas you provided - are you speaking from experience with lesbians?

Nope, read everything I said again, I am 100% on the money. In my youth I dated a lesbian for 3 years and hung out with her lesbian buddies all the time. I have worked in hospitals for over 25 years and for some reason there seems to be a ton of them in that industry. I am married to a bisexual woman and we are swingers and darn near every single woman in the swinger community is bisexual so trust me, I know my Lickalottapusses better than any paleantologist out there.

Almost every single one of the women I knew that swore they were strictly lesbian in their early 20s now have husbands and families. Even in their youth the vast majority of them had boyfriends at some point or another and ALL of them had had various sexual encounters with men.

Whether people are born with their orientation or become one or the other will be debated to the end of time but what is fact is that people fall on a spectrum that ranges from completely straight to completely gay with everything in between. Most men fall either on the straight or gay ends of the spectrum but women are spread throughout the spectrum. Women are 'sexual' and whether they are homo sexual or hetero sexual at any point in time depends on huge number of variables.

Bottom line is lesbians/bisexuals do like dick from time to time.

Bottom line is play this out like you would with any chick with a partner, it doesn't matter if the partner is male or female.

You are also in the friendzone so you need to play it like you would anyone else that has put you in the friendzone.

The bad news is she is going to have her defenses and deflector shields up on full output. You are going to have to play it cool and show no fear and no desparation at all. Be confident and alpha.

If she asks you if you like her more than a friend she is dumb. You had your hand reaching down her pants, of course you like her more than a friend..duh! AND she obviously had some other feelings for you too at that one point in time.

She is going to try to deny that happened and will blame it on a moment of vulnerability. Don't let her play that card. SHE WAS ATTRACTED AND AROUSED BY YOU AT THAT TIME, THAT IS FACT. Anything else she throws up is just smoke to try to justify her actions and try to eliviate her feelings of guilt.

Stay strong in that you are an attractive and sexual male and she is an attractive and sexual female. Whatever happens between you two is between consenting adults.

Do NOT oppologize for anything. Do not turn into a wuss and do not become her girlfriend. Be upfront that she is an attractive and desirable woman and you are a man with a pair.

If she says she just wants to be friends do not let it phaze you. Maintain alpha body language, eye contact, triangular gazing and flirt with her and make innuendos. But DONT be a jerk or an asshole, just be a sexual male. DO NOT let her castrate you and turn you into a bitch.

She might walk away from you and say it's over but don't let that phaze you or make you crack, she will be back. You have a long term friendship..SHE IS INVESTED. she'll be back and she will realize that you are a sexual male.

She may not fuck you right away but she will respect you as a male so you will at least stand a chance. If you crack and turn into a bitch she will not.

First off, yes I have a ton of experience with lesbians and bi females, read my post above.

As far as my post being contradictory it is not. You are not propositioning her and asking to enter into their bedroom. You are making yourself available to be invited into their bedroom by them. You are leaving it up to them whether to invite you or not (realize that they probably will not but if you leave the door open for that, they might)

As a swinger I know that a lot of couples do fantasize about bringing a 3rd or 4th or 15th party into their bedroom. What makes them decide to do it is whether they know that 3rd party will respect their relationship and not try to come between them and whether that person will keep their mouth shut and protect their privacy.

If you want to do this you will have to market yourself as simply a living dildo that they can use on each other. In other words you are just a prop that they bring into their bedroom to enhance their own experience as a couple.

If you are too hung up on this chick and want to actually have a real relationship with her this will NOT work. You will not be able to see yourself as a prop to her and it will blow the deal. They are chicks and they will detect your emotional state better than you will be able to hide it.

Again, you are generalizing an entire group of people based on YOUR OWN experience. Clearly, you don't know all the lesbians. Similarly, I am also speaking from my own experience having been a dj at a gay club, volunteering at gay pride and being surrounded by gays/lesbians living here in San Francisco.
So? That doesn't prove anything about lesbians.
Again, these women are bi. And so what if they swore they were lesbian at the time? Maybe they were confused? This happens all the time. I know a gay dude who worked with me at the club and also worked at a bath house and told me 95% of his clients were straight men who wanted men on the side but were happily married and their wives had no clue. Does this somehow mean that ALL men crave dick from time to time? Furthermore, there are gay men in the com. that have had girlfriends and have been married but now like men. Does this mean they secretly crave wet pussy from time to time?

Surely, these answers are complex but none of this is enough to come to the conclusion that ALL lesbians want dick from time to time (or ALL gay men want pussy from time to time).
I agree on his but I also think part of why more women are bisexual is because society openly accepts it more as opposed to a thousand years ago where bisexuality is more common among men. This still does not prove however, that all lesbians want dick.
And men are not sexual? Sounds more like an excuse on your part to justify your own fantasies. We all have them but we also have to accept reality.
Bisexuals yes, lesbians no. This is the same creepy mentality a rapist has- the woman must want the dick. Perhaps, you cant fathom the fact that some women are born that way and have no attraction to men. You dont need to think a woman is a man hater because of this either.

Bottom line- there is a scale, everyone falls somewhere on the spectrum. Can't generalize.

End of story brah/

You're disaggreeing with me but proving my point for me in many ways. I think you are hung up on labels too much. I don't think labels mean crap, people do what they want to do regardless of the labels other people put on them or the label that they attach to themselves.

But I'm all about finding middle ground so how 'bout I say this and we can see if you will agree with it.

I will concede that there are a number of women out there that NEVER are attracted to men and NEVER want to have any form or sexual experience with a man. We can call those women true lesbians.

And I will concede that there are women that strongly prefer women and rarely have any attraction to men or sexual contact with men but it happens occasionally. we can call them bisexuals.

What I am getting at is number of true lesbians that have zero attraction and never have any contact with men is extremely small. MOST (not all) women that call themselves lesbians have in fact had sexual experiences with men at some point. (My guess is a ton of gay men have had experiences with women too but that's another issue)

In the end it really doesn't matter at all in this thread. My main point to all this was not defining lesbian or bi labels but rather that the fact this chick is a titty-rubber means nothing. If the OP is going to game her, game her like any other chick that has a partner and is in the friendzone.

All this lesbian vs bisexual crap is all a big red herring.

It's getting too tedious to multiquote on my phone now, but I think in a sense you are both right at the opposite ends of the argument. I think here2play summarized it well in saying that in the billions of people in the world there are of course those who only will ever be attracted to their own sex. But there are many people who are attracted to both yet only openly display a strong affiliation towards one preference, unless presented with the "right" circumstances.

In essence I believe that homosexuality is like a scale from 1-10 with being completely straight being a 10 and being completely gay being a 1. And perhaps there aren't many people who are strictly a pure 1 or 10. I believe this girl falls somewhere with a preference for girls but not a strict 1/10.

But we digress. I'm going to tell this chick I love her as a friend and I am also attracted to her as any normal guy would be. I suspect she wont feel the same. I will tell her that I respect her relationship with her girlfriend and I won't interfere with it. (I'm not going to mention "helping out" in the bedroom).

I'll pursue other girls and maybe something might happen in the future with her but it's of no consequence if it doesn't - I will still keep a great friend.

How does this sound as a gameplan?