I had an experience last night that left me feeling guilty and a little dirty. I went out with a gorgeous girl built attraction and comfort, and used mystery's "you've hijacked my brain" idea to get her to want to have sex with me. She's telling me I'm the perfect guy and I dont have the heart to tell her that some of the things I was saying to her was just to get in her pants.

Is being a PUA wrong? We are manipulating women to be attracted to us until we get laid, then what?

I'd appreciate some input from everyone, beginners and pros.

I have the same feelings. I have these feelings of guilt in life in general because I struggle with confident yet admire it, but if ever I gain confidence then I feel arrogant and I think it's wrong.

So if I was doing the same with girls it would feel a little wrong but there's no doubt I'm working towards attracting women, I think I just need to be less jugemental of myself somehow.

i don't think it's any different to girls wearing pushup bras or make up. They're just fake things they do to flick our attraction switches

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Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

a girl manipulating her looks is in the same boat as you manipulating her feelings?

you dont have me convinced yet...

this runs through my mind at least 5 times a day.
i'm sure some women would be appalled by the tactics some AFC's are using on them.but then i look on the other side of the coin and i say fck them!

being a nice guy DOES NOT work
being a caring guy DOES NOT work
being average from the start DOES NOT work

So its a basic principle of adapt or die.All women say they want a caring guy bla bla bla blaa bla bla .... when you are that guy it gets you know where.

So basically its sad that alot of tactics have to be used but thats why its called the game right?

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Its time for a change....a huge Mother@#$@# change!

her looks affect your feelings, that's why guys get sucked in and fall in love with girls that are actually quite horrible people. And the fact that girls aren't attracted to you being a nice guy is her problem not yours.

I personally don't use any canned routines or canned openers and try to be as honest with girls as I possibly can.

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Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

I used to think about this when I was first getting involved in the community. What we are doing, is not wrong at all. Now we I go out sarging and gaming, I do not do so simply to get some ass (always :p), I'm looking for a mate and a life partner.

If you think about it, we do not lie about anything, we do not cheat in the game of life, and we do not steal from anyone. We simply weave and dart through obstacles to get past a woman's emotional defenses and find the real person who is hidden deep down there. PUA tactics are as illogical as using canned corn instead of off the cob. You're safe buddy, dont worry

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-dw3llz

its no different then a girl 'manipulating' their look to attract men! if you look at any womans magazine 95% of it is about attracting men!!!!!! so how is it any different? the thing is women are more driven to men by their feelings at first, men are driven by the looks of the woman! lets face it you are more likely to go for the girl who looks like angelina jolie or cheryl cole or megan fox, if shes ugly but great to talk to youre gonna be less attracted to her so whats the difference.

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life sucks and then you die! deal with it

all social interaction is manipulation

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Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

You all have the wrong idea.

If you feel guilty for using lines taught by another dude like "you've hijacked my brain" and using "indirect" methods by PRETENDING not to be interested... and it "worked" by having the girl like you more than just for sex...

You SHOULD feel guilty. You've lied to her. You've failed to manage expectations. Anyone following Mystery Method the way its taught is going to run into a plethora of issues and this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Why don't you stop being a piece of shit who uses MM and start looking into better, more effective, and more HONEST methods?

A lot of newbies and people outside of the PUA community have the misconception that Mystery's teachings are what defines "PUA." This is wrong. The truth is, Mystery's teachings just define MM. There are many other methods out there, many of which blatantly contradict Mystery's bullshit, and for good reason.

Wouldn't you feel less GUILTY if you were straight and up-front with the girl about your intentions with her from the get-go? Stay away from that MM bullshit.

I am open to read up or try different more honest methods...can you point me in the right direction.some starting points?

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Its time for a change....a huge Mother@#$@# change!

@chief

regardless of whose methods i used, the bottom line is I made this girl really want me and I'm not that interested in her. I was dishonest, but which PUA method IS honest? Who gets laid when they tell a girl: "hey, I think youre really sexy. I want to fuck you and maybe if I like you we will end up having a relationship."

Where is the happy medium that will allow me to get what I want, keep the door open, but not feel like an ass hole?--if there isnt one how close to that can I get, knowing I'll have to make a sacrifice: less poon or more guilt.

It's a man's role to pursue a woman and it is a woman's role to resist. If she can't resist then game over.

Women are smart people, they make good decisions, if they choose to have sex with me then they have chosen to accept the consequences.

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--Johannes

"My notion of a wife at 40 is that a man should be able to change her, like a bank note, for two twenties." Warren Beatty

if that logic works for ya, power to you. I feel like I'm smarter than them.

"with great knowledge comes responsibility"

It depends on how you use it.

If you make her fall for you and dump her for her sister... then thats bad.

If you use it because you care... thats good.

Leave her better then you found her. Thats the only rule I follow nowadays.

Also, the PU game has changed since the glory days of Mystery and Style... Nowadays we are more into personal improvement. And becoming a better person, thats gotta be wrong...

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn