Occasionally my therapist will tell me something that seems to conflict with PUA materials and attitudes. I think it might be worthwhile to explore those conflicts and perhaps reconcile them.

Today's topic, Let's Just Be Friends.

Therapist says: You keep getting LJBF'd because you don't have enough confidence, so you accept them as just friends. You won't see much success until you stop letting women friend zone you. Plus it's weak to let a girl be your friend when you're really interested in more.

PUA says: If a girl friend zones you, it's fine. Be her friend, and let her introduce you to her friends and/or act as a pivot for you. Also by keeping a light, fun and flirty vibe you may convert her over.



My take: I've got quite a following of female friends at this point, but few/none of them have ever set me up with anyone. I haven't really officially tried to use any as a pivot though, so maybe I'm missing some opportunities. I do feel like they would be upset, though, if I asked them to help me hit on a girl.

On the other hand, I'm challenging a girl right now and telling her we can either get to know each other as a romantic interest or nothing. So far it's led to us texting back and forth until 1am, with me taking the line that we'll only get hurt if we keep trying to be friends... which has been true with every girl I've really been into and tried to be friends with so far. (In this case, she "can't" date me because she may be leaving the area soon. She has indicated attraction, and is showing IoI's, and when I challenge her to tell me she isn't interested she does not... just says she can't date anyone right now.)

So for me, neither way seems to be working!

Both of them are right. PUA won't care because he got a choice - you do care.
For you take the first one to the heart.

Which one of them helped you with something for the last time I'm mean situation when they have to change their plans or sth? Who's investing more in a friendship?
You don't challenging her... You are afraid of saying you're not looking for a JUST friend. It's defending yourself & being afraid to be left alone.

She indicates the attraction, because she loves attention. Women ain't stupid mate.

_________________
You live - you learn

I think it's kind of a matter of personal choice. Do you mind being friends with the girl? Make it your choice, not hers. I've been at this for a while and even I still get the LJBF occasionally. As your game gets more solid you will hear it less and less. But women can have all sorts of reasons for giving you the LJBF line. It's not always something you did. Personally, I just cut the girl off and tell her no that is not what I want. Don't let them dick you around. Like the other guy posted, she is just loving the attention. I would say just cut her off and move on.

Possibly... I'm not getting your meaning. Re-read a couple times, and I may have worded a couple things wrong (for instance I didn't say "romantic interest" to her, just felt that it was implied because I was rejecting the friend label.)

The "neither way" part is a reference to other women I have tried to be friends but still flirt with.

So... I'm probably missing something?


EDIT: Was thinking in the shower, and after Vuvezula's post... I'm missing that the "saying no to friendship" bit is just about moving on, not about getting that girl right?

I agree with that last post. I've had my share of One-itis girls and the best thing is to just move on. Otherwise you'll be thinking about it every time. And if you say 'no that's not what i want' the girl will respect you for it and maybe even change...

Onoma:

Is this the same girl as in your other post?

Regardless...what you are doing wrong is:

- You say you want a romantic relationship instead of friends...when you should be saying you want to fuck
- When she says she cant be more then friends...you still talk to her! How does that make sense at all? Isn't that being friends?....what was the point of giving her an ultimatum if it doesn't mean anything.
- If you are going to tell her that you don't want to be just friends, you have to FREEZE HER OUT. tell her you won't respond to calls or texts unless she wants to fuck.

She either will stop talking to you, allowing you to move on OR she will talk to you, allowing you to make the next move.

But I want a romantic relationship, not just "to fuck."
That's where we are now.

The next move is to fuck. You can not have a relationship with someone, as an adult, without being intimate.

I say "fuck" loosely here, but all PUA material say that you need to FUCK first, and DATE later.

So you tried to give her the ultimatum, and she still talked, and you did nothing. You need to escalate immediately, or move on.

P.S. Keep in mind, this is all just my opinion Hope it works out for you!

I personally think what you are doing here is fundamentally wrong.
1. Ur putting out ultimatums that are making her uncomfortable
why is this u ask, first this is a loaded question making her uncomfortable causing her to use some blowoff excuse
next this is not light and fun nor sexual tension building,
number 3 maybe she wants you to chase to be unsure bc once you know u have it you the whole thing isnt as fun
lastly you having to ask and say especially through texting that u want this or that is just insecurity and neediness.

Have fun with her show her adventure, make her unsure, become busy/freeze out.
What you have been doin is boggin done the fun and playful feelings w/this ultimatum bs, that is not a challenge to her, just insecure. just at least pretend you are talkin to a lot of girls to show if she doesnt want anything no big deal and plus the illusion that ur desirable.

this is for future reference, this is already messed up enuff, go with what everyone else said freeze out and move on, cuz this set is blown to pieces rite now

Therapists input: My mistake was in even letting it continue after she first said she couldn't date, and that women will frequently just stay friends and still send the mixed signals because they enjoy the resulting attention.

She is NOT a fan of the "PUA approach" to be friends in order to use the girl as a pivot or in the hopes that she gets jealous and wants you. She sees this as something that will get you the girl "temporarily." Though, to be honest if all you care about is the F-close, that's probably not a weakness.


Hobbit: I've recently had a near success with another girl after 3 or 4 dates... and I've known this girl just as long. Maybe the time in which I'm comfortable enough is becoming shorter... or maybe I was less nervous because I cared less about the other girl. Not sure... just know I want to try!

Jelly: You're seeing a very short synopsis and misinterpreting things. She's the one who kept trying to define the relationship away from anything that could be sexual, while consistently putting out IoI's and indicating she's interested in more. I was having fun with her up until she decided to start appending "as friends" onto anything I said...

Let's try to keep this on the general question though, not on this situation... there's a much longer and more detailed thread about Trish!

is what made me think you were the putting labels out. If she's the one starting the whole friend thing thats a diff issue.

If she's the one putting on a label ... have you tried to get her to not label?
Say something like, we're just two people spending time together / going out to ...
Instead of building pressure, which she seems to respond to with excuses, lay low for a bit and then try to get her to do something fun (since she says she's leaving soon she's maybe not looking to fall in love, so don't put any relationship pressures)
have a fun date that you don't call date

and if she gets nervous and starts with labeling things (are you trying to get this into a date? /I think you're expecting ...) you could tell her something like "look, you're labeling this ... that's silly/childish" / "Hey, I'm not expecting anything, just having a good time - relax"

the only danger is if she on the date says something like "I'm glad we can still be friends" ...

I think if she resists to go out with you / insists on you labeling as friends before you go out, you know she was only into the attention and is sure she doesn't want more

Like I said, other thread: messed-up-night-maybe-i-think-vt69732.html?highlight=

She was just an example for this one not the focus, so the complete info isn't here. I specifically said there would be no labels for getting together last night, and she spent the entire night hanging out with me then tried to label it friends.