The first time I ever asked a girl out, I found out later that she didn't realize it was a date. Granted, that was high school... and at the time your average AFC was leagues ahead of me as far as picking up girls.

However now that I am "in the game" as it were, I find myself having a lot of female friends. A couple of them like to get together with me on a one on one basis with varying frequency.

Then the other day I was at a bar with some friends, and a girl I'd just met and we started talking about this other bar she might like so I told the new girl we should meet up there before another event the group was planning on. I considered that a date invite, but again I found out she didn't...

In fact, a few days after that she invited me out for lunch. I thought that was a date too but she didn't... then she asks me out for dinner the next day. While teasing her she says "it's not normally this hard to ask a boy out!" While talking at dinner we actually talk about how I thought we were already dating, but a "friend" of mine had told her she might have to make the first move and such...

So I guess I'm confused as to when women think something is a date compared to when I do. Clearly being alone with a girl doesn't mean it's a date, even if you're meeting her at night for drinks. And how do I make it clear that I am asking a girl out, when I do?

Or is this all just a matter of me not projecting sexuality and confidence enough?

A little long winded but i can tell you need a bit of background here...

Asking a girl out on a date and trying to make clear that it IS a date is something you want to avoid (take your girl friend or wife out on DATE nights, but not strange gals).

You might find that these girls are denying the meeting being an official date because it puts a lot of pressure on them with regard to whats expected of them AFTER then date. Also, if its a DATE, they will associate you with every single other chump that they gone on DATES with. The idea is to do the exact opposite of what youre trying to achieve in your post, make it sound as casual as possible!

Ask her to JOIN YOU rather than asking her out on a date. Tell her to go shopping with you, tell her theres this place youve been wanting to go and would she like to 'tag along'. This way there is no pressure, even though she knows whats happening and knows WHY you two are meeting.

And if you think about it, who cares if you both agree on the meeting being a DATE or not, that objective is useless. The idea is to get the girl to meet with you and from there you should build attraction. In fact you could even tell her that its NOT a date and it would actually help build attraction in a lot of cases. 'hey ive been wanting to go to this place for ages now, apparently they serve beer in mugs made of ice! wana come with?...dont get any ideas though, i dont do dates! '. This will confuse her big time, which is a good thing at this point. She'll be wondering what on earth you actually want with her, and as a result you will be in the driving seat and while she is just where you want her, curious and intrigued.


Bottom line is that you are going to get more girls out of their houses to meet with you if its conveyed as a casual meeting and not an official date. I can almost guarantee that those girls that didnt 'think' you were on a date, really DID. And when you directly asked them or mentioned the word 'date' to them, they backed down. Let it be a silent truth between the both of you and just focus on getting them out of the house and building attraction when you see her.

Interestingly, just happened again. I called the girl last night and asked her out, and did it in what must have sounded like the most AFC date-like fashion ever. But I guess asking a girl out to mini-golf or drinks doesn't constitute a date.

However, after several hours of us hanging out drinking and then ordering food she stammers out this speech about her not planning to stay in the area so we shouldn't date and she wasn't sure I was interested and didn't realize for sure I was asking her out.

So I guess in a way it proves you're right, and I think I knew that stuff anyway... but I'm generally not the one who brings up the dating term after the fact. The girls have been. Wonder why that is...

I'm not sure I actually have any point to this post... just odd that it happened again I think.

Why do you insist on a date?

I think even calling it as such sets up the sort of AFC frame that I dislike.

If you're just hanging out one-on-one with a girl, then that's perfect for good ol' escalation to close.

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Don't hate, just dominate.

Is it just me or did you even read my post. Nothing should 'constitute' as a date to you any more. Just call it meeting a women. Below is typical definition of a date which in my eyes is about as accurate as you get...

"Dating is a form of courtship, and may include any social activity undertaken by, typically, two persons with the aim of each assessing the other's suitability as a partner in an intimate relationship or as a spouse."

As you can see, you are trying to define a date by WHERE you take the girl (ie. mini-golf or drinks). But it has nothing to do with this, if you manage to meet up with her and you have sexual intentions, it doesnt matter if you take her to a garbage dump, its a date! (just dont verbalize this as mentioned previously)

AFCRoyal: I didn't explicitly refer to anything as a date, I was trying to just make it sound like getting together but I get nervous on the phone and it came out a lot more formal sounding than I would have liked.



Anyway, I think what worries me when the girl realizes halfway through that I'm interested is that... am I doing something wrong if she doesn't realize that sooner?

I mean yes, just "get together" with the girl to keep the pressure off... but with the understanding that the girl knows you want to sleep with her, right? I feel like I'm still coming off as too much of a "just a friend" to these women...

In fact, both of the last two girls stated at one point that they weren't sure if I was interested.

Hrm...

A few points...

- if you already know the girl and already spend time together alone as friends, well then obviously when you go out somewhere together, she will assume youre going as just friends.

- if you already know the girl and DONT spend time together alone (ie. only see each other out with other friends), well if you ask her out alone (ie. just the 2 of you) she will suspect that you are sexually interested as there is a change in pattern. You now all of a sudden want all her attention,hmmm (ie. your interest in her has grown)

- if you have just met the girl, got her number and suggest a meeting with her, she will almost ALWAYS assume you are sexually interested. You dont need to let them know this verbally, ever.

You are trying to clarify too much verbally, instead of focusing on attracting them and showing them what you want from them with your actions.

Im guessing you do the following on dates (or on the phone)

- youre kinda shy/nervous
- you dont lead her but are rather passive
- you dont tease her (SO important)
- you tend to agree with what ever she says
- you are not confident in your words and actions when having conversation, you dont speak with purpose.

The above traits will make you look like a friend, and even even worse, a shy boring friend! You need to work on your confidence, and learn to CARE LESS. It takes time. Work on your inner game (theres plenty on this forum about that)

I'm generally in case 2... working on case 3 though!

What dates?
I do tend to be nervous on the phone, but not really in person. Shy... sometimes, but oddly the girl from last night thought I was an outgoing person. (Probably because she was attractive so I wanted to talk to her more when we first met, whereas she got the impression that the others were cliquey.)

I do tend to be passive though...
Nope, I tease plenty.. especially these girls. They make it too easy!
Hrm... not sure. I think I tend to keep most conversations light, though.
Stupid inner game...

Ok, so you keep conversations light.

Don't.

If every conversation is light, then you won't get anywhere. Sure, you start out that way, especially in day game, but you need to start building more tension in your convos to get her hyped up sexually.

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Don't hate, just dominate.

Can you explain what you mean about building more tension into the conversation?