It has been advised by people on this site that I need to drop all my disconnected power struggle views of people.

While I do not rule this out by any means, I feel that being witting having comebacks and being able to hold my own socially is a benefit even if some people don't like me for it. I feel the alternative is people who keep me down or act cooler than me.

I find it odd that this is the advice I got too since this is a pickup forum afterall and much of the theory I have learned is a big part of the reason for this mindset of wanting to control outcomes socially.

I got upsett in my thread "people don't like me and I don't know why" because most of the advice was to simply connect with everyone.

Well you know what? That's not realistic advice man. You can't connect and have a good vibe with everyone. There will always be people who step up to you either passive aggressively or in a way that puts you right on the spot.

As the community teaches there will always be people pinging and testing your boundaries and your self confidence and respect.

This is how the world works.

I will not submit to the interests of other people if those interests are at my expense. How this could even be suggested baffles me.

So I ask of you guys how do YOU teach people how to treat you??

I do it by flat out speaking to the heart of the matter in one way or another. If someone comes up to me and demands i do something as if I am their slave I will smile and ask them to say please.

If someone gives me a hard time I will make it clear that they need to settle down or calm down.

I need to do a better job with this communication and to try to make sure I'm not taking these daily type conflicts seriously or to heart as much but this is the kind of thing that goes on daily and when I get advice to just love everyone and be positive and connect with everyone I gotta wonder what the hell you guys are spiking your cereal with.

My only suspicion is that many posters here are still in highschool or college and haven't been out into the REAL world yet but on a near daily basis we have to learn how to interact with people in a win-win situation. There will be challenges to our reality on a daily basis and if your way to deal with that is to pretend it's not their or ignore it than you quickly find yourself reacting to those around you and not being very respected or taken very seriously.

For some of you I guess that's not a problem??

For me it is.

This is basically the sequel to my last thread with a more targeted focus. I did take the lessons from the last thread mainly from people like bits, royalty, Fin, and the alpha link dude.

This is still a concern of mine though, and no one has been able to convince me on why it should NOT be a concern and my experience in life has shown me that you need to be able to hold your own socially.

Not everything is going to be disneyland out there no matter how much you want it to. I think everyone can agree that it pays to be able to effectively teach people how to treat you and set a reality with some boundaries. Otherwise people smell weakness and I'm not saying this to be negative or to judge people. It's just how it is.

The only way you are gonna improve is if you stop justifying your current behaviour.

concious or unconcious
You don't care about how we keep our boundaries, this thread was designed to make you feel good about what you're doing.

I bet this is the same how you react to people not liking you: Constantly hammering BUT I AM A NICE GUY, YOU PEOPLE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND ME. PLEASE LIKE ME.

drop that. It's annoying.

I am going to go on record early on here to say that I will not be responding to any posts like the one above that seek to judge or define my behavior. I'm asking a specific question and I ask for those who respond to not "troll" and address the question please.

Regardless of whether or not someone is nice has not bearing on the factors I have brought up.

Just because you are "nice" does not mean everyone loves you. Anyone who thinks that is the case is niave.

This will be my only response to posts like the above one. Lets please keep this thread on topic. If not I will have to just find another forum to ask this question in, as many forums recognize this problem.

Thank you for your cooperation.

The good thing (in my opinion) about advice is you can't CONTROL what you get which leads to little anger posts like the one above, desperately trying to control the output.



Whatever man,
Take it or leave it.




I'm being very serious right now:

Find professional help, go see a counselor/psych. I'm not being sarcastic. Someone who helps professional could help you more than we could.

Psychologists don't get laid.

My post is not out of anger man. Just trying to keep this thread on topic.

Anyone with some advice on the topic at hand is welcome.

Nuff said.

I've posted on many forums. Mystery method has plenty of suggested information on dealing from AMOG's to shit testing to jumping hoops and the like. The RSD forum also recognizes the need to be dominant, lead, and to not hide from peoples shit.

I will go post this on another forum. Anyone who wishes to actually address the topic is welcome to do so as I would welcome the conversation but I'm not going to continue to take part in this thread if it's going to continue to be derailed.

Take care guys.

I appreciate the offer man.

What you may not know is that I have posted on RSD for 2 years and have been one of the most popular posters there. I have also spent time with inner game for several years focusing on things such as the power of now, the blueprint decoded, and Awaken the giant within from Anothony Robbins.

My inner game is pretty solid but I am also not someone who beats around the bush. If I don't like something I will let it be known unless I feel it will only worsen my situation and I will be "stuck" with the people I have potentially insulted.

I'm old enough and have had many life experiences. I have enough knowledge and have tried enough different mindsets to realize that just because you are "nice" that does not eliminate the every day challenges that human beings face in this world.

I don't go to MM because I have evolved past that and it is too structured. RSD is good for inner game but lacks structure. I was hoping this would be the happy medium -- but since many of the top posters fail to even recognize the dynamic I am speaking to in my OP I have to be honest in saying that I don't have much faith in any direction that you would provide. I don't believe that guys are having much success getting laid here on average.

I DO appreciate the offer however and thank you.

I tried my best to have a constructive thread. Im sure their are guys who could provide some great insight but who are probably intimidated by the moderators here. Oh well. I will check back in later on in hopes that someone will provide some direction.

It's odd because the guys that this forum is suppose to be promoting (Afc adam, Sinn, and even Carlos xuma) have material and even entire programs that acknoweledge and deal with the topic at hand that I have brought up.

Anyways my mistake. Again -- Take care.

You get what you give.

You know I can't resist but to address this comment right here.

"You get what you give"

That's EXACTLY my point.

Lets assume that I am not the only one who is a bit "messed" up out there in the world and that not everyone else is "perfect". Can we assume this?

Ok.

So if your comment is "you get what you give" than I could assume that there are others who "get what they give"

Now lets assume for the sake of argument that what "other" people "give" is shit. Let's assume that other people often have priorities or goals that are in direct conflict with ours. Afterall not everyone has the same goals right?

Lets even assume that there are people out there that "give" a lot of shit towards people who they are looking to intimidate, bully, influence, or whatever else they are trying to do to promote their agenda -- because lets face it all of our agenda's are not going to "mesh" right?

So by the comment "you get what you give" you are making my entire point in this thread dude.

I want to know how to "give back what I get" but I'm tired of "giving back what I get" in a way that is potentially unconstructive.

If it's true that you get what you give then I'm right to feel compelled to GIVE BACK the shit that I get.

The simple truth that is in life sometimes I do deserve the shit that I get -- which is the result of uncalibrated reactions towards other people.

However there are also many circumstances where what I give is nothing but understanding and positivity and being nice and that IS NOT returned to me because what this other person GIVES is shit because this other person has their own goals, their own agenda, their OWN things going on and that may or may not come at the expense of our relationship.

So when what your "GETTING" from someone is shit -- by your own words -- it's normal human behavior for me to GIVE IT RIGHT BACK TO THEM.

You see I'm tired of that approach though. I want nothing more than to be able to develop great relationships with the people I meet in my life. I want to at least know that I gave it a good shot WITHOUT COMING OFF WEAK or "TOO NICE" -- which clearly does not win over people for the sake of it themselves.

No -- the way you get along with people AND command respect is what i am looking to tweak with here and I just don't understand what's so wrong with seeking out that way.

Sadly the world is not perfect and people are not perfect. Try telling the girl who got raped or the dude who just got his car stolen that he "gets what he gives".

Sometimes what we "give" is not what we "get" and other times what we "get" is not what we "give". The world just isn't that simple dude. It's not.

If it WAS there would be no need for things like dealing with amog's, tests from other people and things of that nature.

If it were as simple as being a nice descent human being then there would be no pickup community. There would be no wars. There would be no violence. The whole world would be unicorns and rainbows and we would all sing enchanted songs by the campfire in harmony.

You should have unlocked the other thread if you guys wanted to continue the debate in the other thread.

This is a new thread with a new topic.

You took the worse comments about myself, my deepest insecurities and went through and collected and quoted them to make a point.

Congrats.

Yes dude. I have some problems with my basic vibe, my basic energy. That or something to do with how I carry myself that seems to invite some aggression from people.

Yes.

All the more reason to learn how to better defend myself verbally.

I'm at work right now trying to figure out how to fix my energy, but it will be a long process.

What WONT happen is for me to be like:

"OK well since some people don't seem to like me I am going to just become passive and at everyone's mercy and let anyone say or do anything to me because they are probably right and I suck"

Look bro. I wrote up this post about my insecurities because i am a perfectionist and I am very hard on myself.

I could write up a post just as convincing on why I am the shit JUST AS EASILY.

I thought that if I wrote something up that was humble and vulnerable that I would get people to relate because we all have insecurities, and that a constructive post would come of it.

Instead I have guys using it to score "cool" points and pretend that their perfect.

It's too bad.

Then I write up this post and you guys continue the last threads conversation -- which you LOCKED!

Even more unfortunate is that regardless of the points I make and how good they are, you don't even attempt to dispute them. Instead all you can do for your argument is to continue to go back and quote and rehash the same old thing.

What's your point?

That I don't deserve to be able to communicate my points and defend myself against verbally abusive behavior from others? That I don't deserve to learn how to master win-win situations?

Like I said obviously I'm going to work on finding a way as fast as possible to improve what seems to be a bit of a disconnected negative energy that I can project, but this is not going to solve my entire problem because I also have a very difficult time to communicate with people who are trampling my boundaries in ways that don't sometimes lead to ego struggles or win-lose situations where they win and I lose.

I am NEVER going to be able to succeed in being more positive and having a better energy and being more friendly to people if I feel that as a result I cannot stand up for myself when it is warrented -- and I am TRYING to figure out how to do that in a way that is win-win.

In this thread and the last thread for example I try to speak from logic, from reason, and with somewhat of a humble place. It's obvious I CARE to try to get people to see my point of view and understand me. I'm TRYING to have a constructive conversation but what does it get me?

Now if I WANTED to I could just do things to make me look cooler and make you guys seem stupid and try hard. I DONT DO THAT BECAUSE IT JUST LEADS TO RESENTMENT... but this other way doesn't seem to work either.

So if you have any reference for material that may help (and I don't care if its the topic at hand) -- go ahead and give that information so that I and others may be able to check it out.

It's easy to pick apart others without taking any real stance man. If you got an opinion let us know what it is. If all you can contribute is that I should admit that I suck and just curl up into a ball for the world then that's just silly.

I can't help but feel resentment towards people who I feel are trying to manipulate me.

I have admitted my problem over and over again. I understand what you guys are trying to tell me.

I HAVE TRIED many times to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they have good intentions no matter WHAT they do or say and to be nice and positive. I have tried this. It doesn't CHANGE things. At best it just prolongs the inevitable. Often it just makes things WORSE. At least when I am a dick and don't take people seriously SOME people back off or treat me with more respect or stop bothering to try to push my buttons.

Why can't you guys GET this??

It's not like EVERY TIME that I have been wronged in my life it's been because I deserve it or because I am being an asshole.

I took almost a YEAR off from all community mindsets and just went back to being a nice guy. When I would get mad about something someone would do I would keep it inside and I would use the rage to try EVEN HARDER to be a good person to them, to help them, to lead a positive example, to use it as motivation to be EVEN BETTER to them. I would use the frustration CONSTRUCTIVELY and still it did not stop people from doing the things they do. People do what they do man.

This is the equivalent of telling a dude who lives in the hood to throw away his guns and he won't ever need one.

IT DID NOT WORK!!

Why don't you guys understand this?

I don't understand what you guys are thinking. Maybe I am just a total idiot who can't read between the lines or a tough case but I feel like over and over again I talk until I am blue in the face and you guys just don't get it.

Wow.

This thread is evidence of issues around what you asked originally. Trying not to make this about you specifically is impossible. Everyone has to interpret and apply a different set of social "rules" to their life.

One thing I noticed about this thread in general is how aggressive you are. Notice I didn't say assertive. I was this way from most of my life. I tried so hard to get others to understand what I was trying to say, I was missing what they were saying. The sad fact is people only care about themselves. So if it doesn't relate in some way to them, it wont rank high on connection material. Whether you can please everyone or not, we all want everyone to like us.

I think being direct and honest is noble. It seems to be getting you nowhere. The exact "what" in what you should do to train people how to treat you is for you to decide. What I don't think you have done is decide how you want to be treated. Once you do that, act like you deserve to be treated that way and people will do so. You spend so much time explaining what you do and why, you don't have time to just be it. You're wasting alot of your life on what other people think.

Find yourself. Be yourself. Respect yourself. Have no regrets, only some hard lessons. In the end you answer only to yourself.

Byron

People irritate me sometimes. In particular over the internet where they lack intelligence and class. KJ's also irritate me. People with huge ego's usually irritate me. I just get irritated and want to be honest. I'm not perfect but I shouldn't have to put up with the jackasses of the world all the time. Girls love a guy that's honest.
I could probably try to develop a bit more understanding or patience for people though, it may help my communication skills.



I'm a very proud person and I'm pretty clear on how I want to be treated but I haven't really put it in writing. It's just a feeling in my gut when I don't like something someone does or says. Again this could probably be refined so I don't take myself as seriously though, because if I were to demand to be treated the way i want to be treated I would probably have many less friends and acquantances.

Again my problem is mostly in the repetitious communication to others on how to treat me. I seem to have a problem defining this reality to others in a way that is clear and yet still not "aggressive" lol.



Not sure what you mean here but I like the sounds of it.
We are on an internet forum talking about social dynamics cheese-ball. You think this is how I am in real life?? It's not even how i am in other threads! The only thing that translates is that ignorant jackasses annoy the EVER LIVING piss out of me and it's hard for me to hide that fact online where I can just type how I feel and not deal with any consequence.

I spend a bunch of time explaining myself here but that's because there is a lot of KJ'ing and faggotry on this forum.

It doesn't matter what anyone says to you, this will just go round & round and never end.

Stop trying to explain yourself, your situation, why people don't understand you, why people don't "get it"...

Can you not see that this is not going anywhere?

Just go have a beer, chill the fuck out and meet some new people