Ok, this is a messy fucking situation but I'll try to spell it out all clean like for anyone who cares to try and help me.

First of all, I'm not a newbie to any of this. I've read tons of PUA material, wrote an in-depth thing on an online dating, and just got out of a 2+ year relationship with a very cute and highly educated redhead....Having said that, I may be rusty.

Here's the situation in just a few beats:

• -Grew a crush on a girl in my school program.
  
  -Didn't move on her because I was in a (long distance) relationship.
  Decided to end the relationship with my GF.
  
  -Decided to wait on ending the relationship because GF already bought a plane ticket to see me. She is expected to arrive in 1.5 months from this point.
  
  -In the meantime, started getting to know schoolcrush girl better. Really starting to like her...Feeling confident she's sending me signals. Making a lot of sexual jokes, smiling at me whenever we catch each others eyes in a crowd, using my name a lot, laughing at my jokes, hour long phone talks from someone who claims to hate phone calls, text messages sent back and forth...
  
  -Schoolgirl helps me with a personal project that relates to both of our majors but which is outside of both of our curriculum. She now knows I have a girlfriend.
  
  - My GF comes down to visit me. Not even interested enough in my personal project to take a look at it. She leaves. I break it off with her about 4 days later.
  
  -I start anticipating asking Schoolgirl out. Only I'd like for our project to be over since she's an integral part of it and there's roughly 10 other people that have worked on it. I'm asked by a good friend not to ask her out until everything is done and I agree out of professionalism.
  
  -Another integral member of the project falls sick. Completion date is moved back a week.
  
  -Project is completed. I ask Schoolgirl out a week later. It's the first time I ever ask someone out without feeling nervous. She says yes! We lay down in the grass together in front of a pond at my school and talk for an hour and a half until I have to go to class. We hug and I tell her I'll find us something fun to do for the weekend. She looks happy.
  
  -Two days later on the day of the date she calls me to tell me that she agreed to go out because I caught her by surprise and that she's "just not attracted to me in that way" and "didn't want to lead me on" or "ruin out relationship"
  
  - I send her an email saying "Hey, no hard feelings. We'll forget I ever asked and go back to being friends". Her response was essentially "I think that's a good idea. What did you think of those movies/music I lent you? I can't wait until you watch Movie X!"

So obviously I didn't ask her out as quickly as PUA guidelines would dictate or even as much as I would have liked to. Seriously, this was the first time I was EXCITED, not scared, to ask a girl out. I WANTED to ask her out. Buuuut...the circumstances at the time weren't exactly smiling on that approach. So I waited.

I'm not sure if I just completely misinterpreted everything I thought was a signal or if she's just a really nice person. It definitely seemed like we caught each others eyes a lot and smiled at each other whenever a mutual classmate started saying something nonsensical. I could have sworn she looked disappointed the first time I mentioned my girlfriend. She told me that she feels very comfortable around me, which is rare for her. We've got a lot of the same quirks. I really thought there was something there.

So...I don't know...what do you all think of this? I would really like to pursue it further. Become less available for a while, get into better shape some, get some nice clothes, and then invite her to help me on an upcoming school project of mine and see what happens.

This is not an situation in which I feel desperate, obssesed, or weird/creepy. I can get other women. I can have sex with someone else. And I don't need this woman to be happy by any stretch of the imagination. But I really like this girl and want more than a friendship with her. And I'm not one to quit so easily.

Advice would be very much appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

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Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

Most PUAs won't recommend asking a girl out, that makes things too formal too fast and forces the boyfriend frame on your relationship. Just ask to hang out and escalate to the k-close.

Asking a girl out shows too much interest without any physical escalation. It's just generally seen as wussy and passive, not like the assertive and alpha behavior of going for a k-close.

If I want a particular girl as a girlfriend, I escalate to a k-close and never use the words date, boyfriend, girlfriend, or "going out." I just act as if we are dating already, but I let her chase me a little and eventually she either asks to make it formal or she just starts calling me her boyfriend.

One problem you have and will have with this chick is that she flaked on something as simple as a date. Who knows why? Other guys, a boy friend, not ready. You can expect more of that with flakey chicks.

Lot's of ways to turn this around. I've actually made it happen. I've escaped the friends zone. So it can be done. There are a number of ways to do that.

First off, I would be her friend. You have to be her friend so she can drool at the cool independent lifestyle you are building. That will increase her attraction to you.

ANother angle, and this has to to done in the exact right way. You cannot seem to try and make her jealous or you will look completely lame. But date other women and make sure she knows about it. SHe's ask "Is your date hot?" "No she is a total witch". "Hook up?" "She beggeg, I blew her off". etc. Ask her for tips on dating. Just show her that other hot women are interested in you. It's huge, but you got to come across as that's totally normal and boring stuff.

From here on out, all the moves has to be hers. That means she is the ones who's normaly calling, texting or asking for meeting. That has to happen. Make sure that all your contact with her is excellent, and you end it on a high note.

ANyways, it can also be a total waste of time on some chick who is not worth it.

Cheers

One problem you have and will have with this chick is that she flaked on something as simple as a date. Who knows why? Other guys, a boy friend, not ready. You can expect more of that with flakey chicks.

Lot's of ways to turn this around. I've actually made it happen. I've escaped the friends zone. So it can be done. There are a number of ways to do that.

First off, I would be her friend. You have to be her friend so she can drool at the cool independent lifestyle you are building. That will increase her attraction to you.

ANother angle, and this has to to done in the exact right way. You cannot seem to try and make her jealous or you will look completely lame. But date other women and make sure she knows about it. SHe's ask "Is your date hot?" "No she is a total witch". "Hook up?" "She beggeg, I blew her off". etc. Ask her for tips on dating. Just show her that other hot women are interested in you. It's huge, but you got to come across as that's totally normal and boring stuff.

From here on out, all the moves has to be hers. That means she is the ones who's normaly calling, texting or asking for meeting. That has to happen. Make sure that all your contact with her is excellent, and you end it on a high note.

ANyways, it can also be a total waste of time on some chick who is not worth it.

Cheers

I know, I know...asking a girl out isn't the PUA way. But damnit, I was feeling pressed for time. I was making moves on this girl more than two months after I felt like she had started showing signs of interest. Plus, Schoolgirl is a huge fan of old timey romance movies and even outright told me she expects men who are interested in her to ask her out. I figured I could get away with the formality.

I wasted a lot of time not engaging kino. I can't quite say I regret it though since I was in a relationship at the time and my Ex-girlfriend was too good of a person for me to make moves on someone else while I was still with her. Fidelity is very important to me.

I suppose it's not too late to engage kino, but it's sure as hell going to be a lot trickier now since I've not done ANY with her so far AND she now knows how I feel.

Eeeeh. To me a flake is when someone bails on you all together on a date and just doesn't show up. What she did definitely sucks, but I wouldn't call her a flake. She's an introvert like myself, so of all the possibilities you mentioned I'd classify her as "not ready".

I do have a good life going. She's seen my house, riden in my car...I don't live with parents, I support myself fully, I'm in acceptable shape, I'm a full time worker with a cool job, and a full time student in a limited access program with a very low acceptance rate. I enjoy doing outdoorsy things, reading books, I appreciate the culture, I'm a good cook...But she knows all this. I don't know...maybe she needs to see that I can function (happily) as a single person.

Which really makes a guy wonder just what in the hell "Not attracted to you in that way" means. I have a lot of really good stuff going on...I'm not without my flaws. I've got a bit of weight on me right now, crooked teeth, speech impediment...I'm 3 years older than her. I feel like if I had the answer to this I'd then have a direction to push myself into to make this right.

She's already volunteered her services on a second project of mine and I'm going to ask he if she's still down for helping me with that. I'm feeling pretty sure she'll still agree, but this will put me in a position of initiating most of our future contact. I suppose it won't make a difference if it's for a job though...

Time will absolutely be spent here if this is all to be done right. I don't get crushes on girls too often, so I'm going to say it's worth it. Introverted, cultured, artsy modest, yet cute women are a rare breed. Still...I should probably get laid by someone soon just to be on the safe side and get rid of this crush-buzz.

Fucking mess....bah.

Thank you both for your responses, by the way.

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Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

hmm it sounds like you have oneitis. It happens to the best of us and most people will tell you to "get with 10 other girls" to get over it. I fell like that is all bull.

When I was in your position I tried that whole get with 10 other girls thing but I hated it. It just didn't feel right. so i ended up trying to figure out how to get out of the Friend zone and pretty much every girl is different.

Some girls when you get close to them you get definite IOI's but it somehow doesn't count because they're just comfortable with you. (it sounds like thats happening a little to you.) I've spent the night with girls snuggled up with them and played with their hair while we talked about some of life's deepest questions and she still LJBF'd me.

But the basic idea behind breaking free from the Friend zone is to stop building comfort and rapport while throwing huge attraction spikes. Its a totally different kind of game. Adam Lyons draws the outline for it here -->[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9jeyLvpuBM[/youtube]

I've found that its different for every situation though because once you get underneath the surface layer girls can be totally and completely different from each other. Mainly because once a girl is comfortable with you in a friend kind of way she allows some things to happen that she wouldn't with just a guy. ( the false IOI's)

For now I'll leave you with that. When I find more info on the subject I'll post it here. Good luck JoeSki and the best advice i can give is to just go with your gut on this.

-Nemosaursu

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Itcha Boi Nemo!

Read the posts from here
1-vt58252.html?start=0
It helped me out a bit. Read Kasabi's mostly

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Itcha Boi Nemo!

A personal relationship isn't a business deal. You don't lay down the grounds of your relationship with a girl prior to moving forward. Instead, you just go forward because it's a COMPELLING move towards what comes naturally.

Think about it. You don't meet a guy for the first time, set up a meeting and "beat around the bush" about what you expect from the guy through promises to meet at certain times, hoping that you will become best buddies, so that you can play basketball together every Sunday afternoon. Instead, you just play basketball and do other activities together for the SAKE of the activities and friendships just occur naturally.

Most likely, there are things you've said and done with this girl that led her to believe that you were "beating around the bush" for some sort structured arrangement. You didn't kiss her or demonstrate your ATTRACTION for her. Instead, you cornered her into making a logical decision over what should have been an emotional surrender.

You didn't raise her "emotional attraction" for you. Thus, what she's telling you is simply the truth. She plainly doesn't have feelings for you. This is very different from a situation when a girl tells you, "Let's just be friends" after you've demonstrated your attraction for her and there's been some sort of sexual play involved. If this was the case, her "LJBF" could mean,

"If I fuck you now, you won't respect me and you'll ditch me."
"Shit! I can't let him know I'm into him SOOOO much. I'm a good girl!"
"Who does he think I am? The village whore?"

^ This isn't what's going on here.

She tossed you into the "friend's column" and you accepted it. And at this point, you can't simply go sexual with her because you didn't begin that way. (You've already shown her that you are NOT a sexual guy)

This is a pickle . . .

It is starting to sound like Oneitis, but it doesn't feel like it. I'm not agonizing over her nor do I feel like I can't live without her. I feel as though I can still hang out with her comfortably and if she does so happen to blow me off in some fashion I know I'll survive. I've promised myself that if this doesn't work out I'll find a nice cougar to have fun with, something I'd been wanting to try. So I've got that going for me.

I think sleeping with ten women just to forget one is pretty ridiculous. But then, my threshold for hanging out with people is pretty low. I enjoy spending most of my time alone. I think if I REALLY needed to forget about someone sleeping with one other person would be enough.

But she's a real sweet, funny, and smart girl. Crazy and weird sense of humor. I think we would be a very good item. I think she'd make me a happier person than I already am. So I don't want to give it up. At least not yet anyways. And hopefully it doesn't become Oneitis.

She's definitely comfortable with me. We've had some really long conversations, and like I said before, neither one of us are terribly prone to those by nature. But like you and your (very good and quite interesting) video said, I now need to work on building attraction. It's something I've left out of this process all together.

I'm worried about the bit you mentioned about every girl not being the same since I'm not sure if increasing the amount of sexual humor is a good move for her. A mutual friend and I have been telling dirty jokes around/with her since we've all been hanging out together and while we've all had a good laugh it's also made her think that our other friend had a crush on her. So she'll be pretty sensitive to something like that.

But kino...maybe not so much.

The link you gave had some VERY solid advice. Thank you for that.

And thank you for the good luck.
Oh great, even the guy I was going to PM for advice from the thread I just read says I'm in a pickle .

Man, ain't that a bitch? Lol.

Kasabi, your advice from the thread posted above is most sage. Thank you for dropping into my thread. I'm sure you see things like this all the time on the board here. I really appreciate you responding.

Yeah...you pretty much hit the nail on the head. To put it all simply, I put the carriage before the horse. I thought the attraction was there for both of us but there was still a lot more work to do on my part for make her interested in me. I got overly excited and seemingly built a lovely pine box for myself.

She didn't actually suspect I was going to ask her out. I thought she was expecting me to ask her out, but apparently me asking her took her completely by surprise...which took me by surprise. When I had asked her she spent a few seconds going "Uuuuhhh...hmmmm....eerrrr...Oh, wow" To which I responded. "You can say no; I promise not to be passive aggressive or weird or anything like that." Then she said "Yes". We had a nice talk that ended with us hugging each other. Then two days later she called me on my birthday to tell me she had only said "yes" because she felt pressured. We had plans to go see a movie that night but they were scrapped after I got that call. In retrospect maybe I should have gone through with the movie thing anyways.

I'm not sure how effective "going sexual" with her would be in any case. I've only slept with one woman in my life and don't have too much to say for myself in the way of conquests, and she has some problems dealing with her body image and self esteem that stem from past eating disorders. I mean, this is a girl who can't even eat in front of other people. She's not had much to say about her own sexual experiences in a positive context.

If you're just talking about sexual humor and references though...that I've done. Like I've said before, a mutual friend, myself, and the girl trade sexual jokes all the time. We've all got pretty warped senses of humor. She's even seen a good portion of my porn collection. But maybe she needs to hear something from me in reference to sex in a serious context.

The best thing I can figure is to spend sometime with her somewhere by ourselves and start going into rapport building techniques while amping up some kino and see what happens from there.

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Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw

No, because this is not who you are (to her) . . . You've never been this way and you've never been this way with her. You've already created a certain reality; this reality wasn't built just though the lack of kino or rapport. EVERYTHING that you've done with her already is the reality. All of that experience has brought you here. To change a few pieces now because you've read a few books or advice from a pick up forum could send off running or possibly giving in due to fear. (Which will generate negative emotions) What most likely will happen is just another "face palm".

Hence the pickle . . .

"Fire up the kino" or "Go sexual" is a bit of a misunderstanding. You don't choose to do these things. You don't "turn" it on. These switches are simply left "turned on" because touching and being sexual is natural for two people of the opposite sex. As you've learned, you can't go from "date" to "contract" to "sex". This should now be an understanding.

Continue to be good friends as you've mutually agreed but there's no need to save up your weekends for her. Carry your new understanding forward to other girls and SCORE. Remember, this is not to spite her or get her jealous or anything else having to do with her. Go get yourself some tail because you're a man and fucking is certainly a part of a man's life. This girl will understand that you're a man and you'll want to actually KISS, DATE, and FUCK girls. If you fuck other girls and you see no changes in her behavior or feelings for you, you're pretty much done with this one.

Gah! The truth! It burns!

Yeah, ok, fine. So I'll take a step back from the situation as a whole. Work out, write a new Craigslist Ad for myself to post once a week, meet Schoolgirl here and there on campus as usual. I won't be saving any weekends for her, but between work and school it's not like I had weekends for myself anyways.

Goddamn this situation. I felt so confident this one was going to play out well for me.

Kino and going sexual...who thinks of doing these things with classmates when you're already in a relationship for Pete's sake? There's so many things about this case that just grinds my gears to dust.

Fuck it. I'm going for a run right now and then looking for a cougar fuck buddy.

(Seriously though, thank you for the time and advice. You've been great. Cheers!)

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Life is no less funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs. -- George Bernard Shaw