I tend to be attracted to high self-esteem women - the problem? They usually end up being strong, independent, '21st century women' with feminist traits. I don't like that, but generally the attraction their high self-esteem creates leaves me still liking them....a lot.

I have a question in general about them, and I have a specific question about how to respond to the latest text in our interaction.

Keep in mind this is a girl who gets offended when you playfully use the term 'woman' to her, as in 'Woman, that's hilarious!' - real feminist. We were talking about coffee places, so I texted her saying that if she bakes me some amazing muffins, I'd take her to the most amazing coffee places she's never even heard of before.

She responds stating she doesn't bake, but that she wants to know about these coffee places. REALLY?! I have a strong feeling she's interested and has been for a little while now, and I think she knows I'm interested too - now this isn't actually about the baking itself, but most non '21st century women' would totally agree to it out of fun but this girl clearly doesn't do it and has no intention of doing it.

Bullshit - I still think girls should do fun, little things for the guys they're interested in...this girl wants me to unconditionally take her out when she knows I proposed a playful 'trade' over text message.

Keep in mind she's the kind of girl that gets a lot of attention from guys, and most guys would be on cloud 9 based on the simple fact that she wants to go out with them - but thanks to you guys, I realize she needs to be 'trained' - because I don't want her the way she currently is.

Sure it sounds bad, but it's really not - every girl has a feminine, soft, vulnerable side to them, even girls like this. What can I do to bring it out of her, just for me? Well here are my options - some of them bow down to her while others might get the feminine side to come out of her and play. But what I'm looking for is your help on how to respond. Text message scripts would be nice, but just as nice would be an approach towards thinking about situations like this, because I want to handle it the best way.

1) I could ignore her failure of my compliance test and agree to the date and game her in person, but that generates a very bad precedent. I don't want to set the precedent of if she doesn't live up to her end of the deal, that I still live up to mine - she'll walk all over me if this ends up in a relationship!

2) I could offer an alternative - instead of baking, get her to do something else for me - ideas, guys? But it should be something that still brings out her femininity, otherwise I'm showing to her that I can accept her not bringing out her feminine side for me, which is unacceptable to me.

3) I could offer to help her bake (even though I don't know how), and we could make a 'date' out of it - shop for ingredients together, etc. This would be huge fun, but then I'm acknowledging that I'm okay with her lack of touch with her feminine side. And an 'alpha guy' helping with baking at the beginning of relationship (it's different when you're already in one) would decrease my masculinity in her mind at a point when she's still figuring out exactly who I am and what I represent to her? Furthermore, I'd ideally really want her to do this for me!

4) I could imply she failed the compliance test, and end it at that. 'You don't bake? In that case I don't know any coffee shops It's a shame, we were starting to get along too...' This is also dangerous because I don't know what she'd do in response - I'm looking for a 'Ok fine I'll do it lol', but it could very well end because she wouldn't know how to respond - remember, girls like this don't get refused dates from guys because of their failures of compliance

5) I could imply she failed the compliance test then quickly ask another question - that way she knows I'm not bending over for her, but the text correspondence will continue due to the question and could eventually come around to one of the other options above - e.g. 'You don't bake? In that case I don't know any coffee shops So what'd you think of that controversial blablabla?' This will be a HUGE hit to her ego (as will #4) because she realizes I'm willing to FOREGO the date completely because of her lack of compliance - that's why I like these options

6) Some good option I haven't thought of - I highly doubt I've covered all possible angles, and I know if there's anyone who could help me it's experienced guys like all of you.

I really look forward to seeing your analysis of girls like this, and my specific current situation.

Ok, first of all man your ideas on feminine and masculine energy are quiet wrong my friend. "Cooking" for instance has nothing to do with gender. There are plenty of men in relationships that do the cooking because they enjoy it, or are just better cooks. So, your concept on proposing you both cook together "lowering your masculinity" in her eyes is irrelevant. Of the situations you have brought up cooking together would be a great idea.

One thing you do need to understand though is you CAN'T change her. You can't make someone change, and even if you can get them to agree to change for you that is bad. There will always be an undertone of bitterness because you couldn't accept her for who she was.

Thanks, jsquared - so it sounds like option 3 is your suggestion. I don't think it'd be a bad idea (in fact I recognize it'll be huge fun), I'm just hoping it doesn't set a bad precedent for the relationship.

If I were simply going for her as a fuck buddy, I wouldn't care less - but that's not what I'm after, and I want her to know who's going to wear the pants in a relationship. The problem is that the kind of girls I'm attracted to tend to want the pants, too...so I have to solidify my inner game and be even stronger than them.

I do believe the community philosophy that girls want to be led, even 'alpha' girls. And that the more of a man you are, the more comfortable she'll be in letting down her guard. That's why I'm not convinced that #3 is the best option. For me, this isn't about this one girl - it's about this 'template' of girl who seems to come up again and again for me.

And I'm not trying to change her - she can be how she wants, I just ALSO want to see her feminine side, which I know exists - unless she's hiding a penis underneath those clothes.

Anyways, back to her initial text - she said 'I don't bake', not even 'I can't bake' - it's like she's made up her mind - but I don't think that's truly the case, so I want to give it my best shot before I forget about her - and that's why I'm here...

Some more options:
7) "So you don't accept my playful trade?" - this'd be one of my most brief texts to her, and it really puts the ball in her court, and explicitly states I'm talking about a flirty, playful trade, but subcommunicates that I won't back down - risky, but strong

I do like the last option you put in there,

Now you mentioned it potentially setting a bad precedent for the relationship. That actually would HELP the relationship (option 3). You aren't just allowing her to flat out say now, however you aren't ordering her to do something for you. It is a mutual experience done together - pair bonding.

Your comment about "girls wanting to be lead", that is true but there is a line you need to understand when dealing with a strong-willed woman. It is fine for you to make plans for the two of you and set things up, but she is going to be very free-spirited and independent. You can still "lead", but you need to be viewing her as an equal. Now, you should be treating all women this way; but in this case you need to be extra-careful to not step on her toes. Such as, not calling her "woman"; at least for now. Once you've gained a level of comfortable connectivity then those kinds of things probably can slip off as playful sarcasm.

Hmm, I see what you're saying about option 3: I'm not actually caving in by agreeing to her refusal to bake for me, I just changed the circumstances under which I'm holding my ground. You know what, unless anybody else has something to say on this, I'm actually going to use that as my final resort if 1-2 cocky/funny attempts to get her to accept fails.

Btw, with a common community philosophy being misinterpretation of what she says, I could also say:

9) "You don't bake? Aww, it's so sweet that you want to learn just for me! I'm a little flattered "

How do you think this compares to #8? I know I'm overthinking it, but your opinions are valued.

hey random, i like number 9 the best...the point is i think u should tease her a little bit...u might even want to increase the teasing a bit more, eg,

"you don't bake? what kind of woman are u?!?"
"you don't bake? are u one of those feminists or something?"

etc...keep it teasing and playful...and dont worry if she actually caves to ur request or not..but its a good opportunity to neg her..