and I have a question for everybody. It seems that when I read these boards, people keep saying that the book was a big influence on their life and it brought them in to the PUA community. My question is, how? My take away from the book is that I may give up the PUA thing and concentrate on fixing myself and my life. I came to PUA in the hopes of fixing my "inner game" otherwise known as LSE or Social Phobia. Of all the characters in the book, Neil is the only one that completely realizes his dream. Mystery is on his way. A few others, such as extramask and sweater had good intentions. The others just seem to be sleezeballs that want to collect as many numbers as they can. Be it phone or f-close. Is this your goal here? Are you really looking to only fuck as many women as possible? Not give a shit if they're married? I'll tell you this, once I get my LSE and social phobia solved, build a good life, and get married- you touch my wife and you are in a world of hurt. Any real man would put the hurt on you. Are your intentions any good or are you like Tyler and the many lost kids that drifted in and out of the house? Do you really want to improve yourself or are you just looking to get your dick wet in as many women as you can? I want to hear thoughts on this, because after Papa, and the many countless souls that seek to fill the hole in their life with the hole between a womans legs. Did that many people really miss the point of the book?

When it happens, probably we're just missing the focus, the target. Instead of faking all, I work on myself, trying to rebuild myself. Im slowly suceeding . Thats the right way I suppose.

Some guys here just have a great story of failure with women, its understandable that when you're a 30 old male virgin you get mad. When we fail, we fail for good.

We are a bunch of guys just trying to be happy.This is what we are. All of us.

fuss

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Nothing great will ever be achieved without great men, and men are great only if they are determined to be so.
- Charles de Gaulle

It's never too late to be who you might have been.
- George Eliot

Most guys come here with good intentions. But it's a growth experience. Imagine if you never had the opportunity to be around women and grow in your understanding about them, you would start out fresh. So a lot of guys start off like teenagers testing their limits and boundaries with women. They try to sleep around as much as they can at first, and then they slowly begin to grow and appreciate women as actual human beings. It's a like a delayed puberty for some.

There is also a growth experience in understanding and respecting the process of seduction as well. It's like a Bruce Lee/Jeet Kun Do thing. The ultimate goal of studying all these techniques is to one day have no technique. Basically most guys go through the whole indirect opener and routines stage. Then they work on inner game, get more experience, then start working on more advanced outer game. The advanced stuff teaches you how to draw from your own resources and be more relaxed and natural around women. Eventually approaching and picking up women becomes a part of you, something that feels natural and that you can do easily.

What you will do with these new skills and attributes depends totally upon the individual. If he is naturally a good person, he will do go things and vice versa. If you give a gun to and FBI agent he will use it to protect, give the same gun to a murderer and he will use it to kill. The process of pickup is neither inherently good nor evil, it is simply a skill that can be wielded.

By the way, Tyler is like the nicest guru out there. He is portrayed all evil in the book, but all of his teachings are about respect and understanding. And Neil's girlfriend broke up with him like a year later for some rockstar. Don't forget Neil is a writer and ever story needs a villain and a happy ending.

Im guessing you didnt flip to the last pages and read his last comments. If you do a current search on alot of the people in the book things are alot different now. Mystery even has a TV show. So to say he ALMOST met his goal id say hes more then ALMOST there.

Tyler and Papa were in it for something completely different. Money and power. They dont even pick up girls thru the whole last half of the book. And honestly if you think style didnt make him self look good in his own book then im sure your mistaken.

You should also notice that he makes it a point in the book not to mess with anyone who is in a LTR. He tries not to mess with married girls. He even tells you a line "hey how do you guys know each other" to test if they are in a LTR. He also reaches a point where he dosnt lie to girls and even tells them what he is doing.

i wouldnt blame you for not wanting someone to mess with your wife. Or any women in your life. But i also think if a womens happy with her marrige you got nothing to worry about. If you cant please her tho then its not going to take a PUA to take her away from you.

Most of the people i have encountered on this sight are honorable and pleasant people. not saying there arnt any sleezeball guys. But there are sleezy guys in RL too bnot just in the PUA community.

I think YOU kinda missed the point actually because neil even admits he wouldnt do it any different because he wouldnt be with the person hes with or be who he is now. And i took what the other people were doing as a fair warning of how things can go wrong or how i could lose sight of my goal which isnt far from yours.

In the story a guy whos worse off then just social phobia turns his whole life around and makes it totally the oposite. Your right tho. i dont think its the PUA that everyone is seeking i think its what comes with it. And part of that is focusing on fixing your life. In the book he just gives fair warning on what not to do.

Also there are a few guys in the book whos dreams change and they do end up following them. Such as finding religion or thier true calling.

If you read the last part of the book and you compare that to the people at the beginning or the book you will find that almost everyone is better now then they were before.

Even tyler who was portrayed as the bad guy probly only looks that way because you grew attached to the main character and you let the author lead u to that conclusion. Maybe tyler is a true slim ball but he got what he wanted in the end.

He went from a no body to a huge part of the PUA community and even made a carrear out of it. The only person in the book i saw that got truly hurt was isabel but she only got hurt because she let her self fall in love even tho neil was honest and straight with her. i think she would have been hurt even if he wasnt a PUA.

Besides i dont think neil is trying to say dont be a PUA with his book considering he still promotes it and teaches PUA. More like dont become a PUA robot and remember to enjoy what you can and try to leave people better then you found them. My 2 cents.

Skankin

I agree with many of the points here, it is up to the individual. But from the perspective of fixing yourself, it just seems like Neil took the hard way. And that he didn't know what his problem was for a long time. Juggeler nailed his problem on first meeting Neil by saying "He's trying to focus on outward things to fix something inward". This is more wondering outloud if PUA is really the best way to fix internal problems. Inner game materials don't really seem to be addressing the straight psychological problems that many men that get in to PUA have.

Now Tyler, I really don't know much about the guy or his stuff. I've been reading Juggeler, Lovedrop, Swingcat, etc. so I don't know much about Tyler. The part in the book that put me off of him was that he admits to being a mysoginist. I really can't hang with that.

Read eckhart tolle if you really want to fix your inner game.

I wouldnt say that The book got me into PUA'ing I been doing something Similar since 2000 and when i read the book or heard about the book the first time i was like " Wow there are other people out there trying to figure this whole "Game" thing out like me. Is not always about picking up girls i say like 80% of it is. You can use what you learn here to turn your life around. Picking up chicks is one of the mulitiples things you can acomplish. I've seen guys come from nerds and geeks who had no inner game, no social skills and now more confident, have my friends. Doing well in there career cause they got more confident. If you only see it as a tool to only pick women up then you are cheating yourself on all the aspect of it. Basicly its what you make of it yourself. what you want to learn. Everyone here is willing to help you out in all aspect.

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"Live life to the fullest, never look back, remember No regrets" J.f

Like I said, if you get a hold of any of his material you will see that he has a profound respect and appreciation for women, in my opinion more so than Neil or Mystery. You should really watch the "Blueprint", it will completely change your perspective on Tyler. I think either he was completely misrepresented in the "Game" or that was very very early on in his development with women. Either way, he is not the villain that is portrayed in the book.

Well, Neil Strauss also said, that pick up should be about improving your lifestyle. Although if one gets lost it could turn one into a social robot overanalytically interpreting every detail of communication between human beings and using nothing else but a dozen of remembered lines as vocabulary.

Im in for improving my lifestyle.

Since reading the game, I go to the gym, meet up with people alot, also do team sports with other people and tend to be more confident with myself.

So the game has been quite a big influence on me, to be honest and I am very happy that I stumbled across that book.

All the best!

The point guys is that women are not so stupid as some think, they recognize a real man, and when we are getting results on that challenge (of being a PUA), we start to be more attractive for em.

This is the main reason why pickup is a journey of self-improvement, thanks ladies .

fussss

_________________
Nothing great will ever be achieved without great men, and men are great only if they are determined to be so.
- Charles de Gaulle

It's never too late to be who you might have been.
- George Eliot