I don't know. Maybe this is just me, or it's because of the girls at my age are like this (17 year olds) - it feels like these girls never really show any sign of being genuinely interested in you and wanting to be a possible partner for them to share their lives with. I mean sure I can get IOI - but the are just that, they are only "indicators" of interest - not genuine intrest it self. I mean I understand why the game teaches us not to suddenly go up to a woman and show imediate interest - but after some time, surely some interest must be shown. This girl I know has been showin a lot of IOI - but never real genuine interest. And even then it comes in mixed signals - sometimes she smiles when she sees me, we have wonderful converstions, other times she just isn't interested. I dont get it. What is wrong with showing interest in a person you like? this goes for both men and women.

Thiers nothing wrong with showing interest...... I suggest you broaden your reading.....















GUNWITCH!

17 year old girls don't want 17 year old boys. If a good looking man such as myself was around them I am sure they would show plenty of interest. I am like an indicator of sorts to see if a female or a homosexual male has a pulse.

social stigma of being labeled a "slut"

Girls do show interest.

It is obvious to other girls and to some men... They do try to limit it but sometimes it is difficult...

In all honesty, I don't think you will understand until your a bit older (2-5 years older) but 17 year old girls don't want 17 year old boys. This is just hard wired biologically into our instincts. Don't get me wrong, but how many older guys, do you think they want someone their own age or older? HELLO NO! This is just basic evolutionary biology. Grlz are hot when their young, 18-24 year old peak, men on the other hand get better with age (granted they don't get fat or anything). But you could probably read up on this in evolutionary biology. I personally remember when I was 17 and saw all the hotties around me in my class, and now I see them (some of the at college) and their not as hot as they were when they were young, their getting fat, and back in high school they look like models. Just be patient and don't overwhelm yourself

she isn't showing genuine interest because women naturally judge a mans interest in her lower than it really is, because they have a lot more to risk, whether pregnancy, reputation, or a multitude of other things.

_________________
Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

Man... Thats wrong in so many ways...

Allow me to completely disagree. True, many 17 yo girls prefer PREFER older guys... But it doesnt mean that it is impossible for him to get a girl his own age. As for older guys... I am an older guy and I can imagine older and younger girls both. There is such a thing as personal taste. You can not just take some thing you learned in your highschool biology classes, mix it with what Mystery believes and hold it for true. You might search for the perfect partner but truth is, if everybody would just go for their ideal then there would not be much casual sex going on... And there is.

Second thing I wanna oppose, you are not helping this guy, only making him feel worse.

Third, ok you advise the man to read up on his biology... It is good to understand the biology behind mate selection etc etc because it shows you where the attraction switches come from. But to blindly believe in them without understanding them is plainly stupid. If you would be right there would be no such things as 17 you couples, men with older women, couples of the same age, girls going for guys that are not perfect. You are wrong my friend.

I would like to say this to everyone at this forum. Do not blindly believe in what the "rules", "gurus", "biological models" or "psychology books" tell you, get real. See the world as it is. It is not necessary to have ALL attraction switches, it is not necessary to be PERFECT... It helps but you are not screwed just because you lack one or two of them...

Sorry to be so hard on you man, I just thought it was necessary to set this straight.

Im gonna Quote Mystery if I am alowed:
She puts her reputation/chances of survival/pair bonding at risk if she just goes around showing interest for every guy she likes. Remembering that her HARD-WIRED Biological responses tell her that she will endanger those qualities ( pregnancy/reputation/survival/ etc etc )... by showing interest so openly, since showing interest is mostly a proof of the desire to have sex.

I believe that women DO show interest their own way. Where as a man would stare at the girls boobs to see if she picks up on the idea to have him on top, She will stare at his eyes to look for any signs that hes not being honest. By revealing his needines (by a particular sign of interest ) the man puts himself in the possition of looking needy and not preselected, and no girl likes needy guys, therefore the man is at the same time disqualified from being a potential sexual (or emotional ) partner

:::(mostly emotional conections emotional conections are created by the age of 17)::

Even tough you might have sex with a girl your age (17 in your case) it will be more likely that the IOIs or Demonstrations of Interest that she gives you, will be more towards building an emotional pair bond. or ROMANCE, rather than sex.

Thus the girl doesnt show interest as directly as man. They might give you Indicators of interest, if you know how to pick on those and control the frame and create enough attraction, then she will give you those Demonstrations of interest you long for.

ok this is my particular opinion, please feel free to comment on this too.

_________________
".. I will learn all that I've forgotten, I will succeed where I'd previously failed, and even if I don't I wont stop, cuz this is not just about girls, this is about Life "

Seriously, 17 year old girls do not want 17 year old boys. Go to any disco/club outside of America/Canada/Britain and you will see how that is so. If you are a 17 year old boy it is a great time to go inward. God knows that this world needs more people who are at peace with themselves. The best times of my life have been spent alone in front of a mirror.

Frankly... I live in Europe... And I still say that, yeah, if they can choose then they will go for older guys but sometimes they still go for their classmates... Why? Because they got stuff in common. They spend time together. And the 17 yo guy may be available.

Not saying that you are wrong in theory but reality shows that 17 and 17 still works...

Alright, let me start by saying something, and I mean in no way to offend.

All of this talk of 17 year old girls only wanting older men is BS, and honestly when you talk about how girls in college are already going down hill and are not attractive enough anymore... you sound like a pedophile. And I know that's hard to not take as offensive, but that's the way it comes across (and I'm 22 and just graduated from college and will take a 28 year old over a 17 year old in a heartbeat).

Again, as I believe Ezo said it's a thing called personal preference. Now here is my theory and my personal experience to back it up.

First, high school is just effing hard, bro. That's the long and short of it. But the main point I think, is that girls don't want older guys. They want guys of higher value. And I know that comes right out of MM, but think about it. What do older guys have? Cars? Jobs? Freedom from parents? Easier access to all of the fun things that a 17 year old wants? What does all that equal? Higher Value.

Now if you look at the 17 year old captain of the football team, I bet you he has a 17 year old girlfriend and I bet all the other guys are jealous. Why does he have her? Because he has perceived value. He is a leader of men. He is therefore popular, and has social proof. He is for sure an alpha male. Most likely physically fit, as he is an athlete. Blah blah blah, you get the point.

So that's the guy. Now, what's more important than having a guy to a 17 year old girl? Having the approval of her girlfriends! Everyone likes the captain of the football team, therefore all the girls accept him and what happens when a girl dates him is that her social proof is being raised because she can then turn and brag about her boyfriend.

So I think that what it boils down to is a matter of having high social value.

Let me back this up with a quick story about myself.

In middle school I wasn't very popular. I was the editor of the school paper, I started a school radio station, I played D&D with my friends in middle school, all that shit. I couldn't get a girl to save my life.

But then I went into high school. I did the same things, but at a higher level. I owned them. I was still in all the plays, but I had the leads (yeah, in musical theater), I played in the Jazz band, but I also started a rock and roll band with my friends and we started playing at house parties. Now keep in mind I still had no game, and no luck with women. I didn't know what was going on, but my social proof was rising.

11th grade, junior year, I fall for my fucking teacher's daughter. She is a year older, top of her class, school president, everyone loves her. We flirt, we hang out, she doesn't like me. Suddenly I realize her friend is coming onto me while we're on a school trip. Suddenly, the girl I like is all over me and we end up dating. She even said to me "Yeah, I didn't really think I liked you but then when I saw Erin all over you I got really jealous and I just had to have you." Kind of shallow right? But once she saw that another girl of high SV was into me, she needed to show higher SV by dating me. So I date that girl for a year, lose my virginity, the whole works. In a year I went from being a nobody, to being that guy who stars in all the plays and is in that band we see at the parties and stuff and is dating that Aly. And I think it all boils down to raising social proof. I didn't know what I was doing, but everyone knew me, even if we weren't best friends. They knew my band, my name was in the paper for musicals, blah, blah, blah. I really think it comes down to social proof.

Therefore my advice is that you need to gain rapport with her friends. If you are getting IOIs from this girl it probably means she likes you, but doesn't know if you are "cool" enough in the eyes of her friends. Win her friends over, raise your social value and I think once the friends like you they will give her the green light to pursue you and your window will open. Game on.

_________________
"As to the deceit perpetrated upon women, let it pass, for, when love is in the way, men and women as a general rule dupe each other."
-Giacomo Casanova

you're exagerrating a little. About one third of the girls have dated was elder than me - I was in all theese cases 3-5 years younger (another fact is I was 24, the older you are in general, the lesser meaning the age has).

Anyway, when I was a pupil in secondary school, most of the girls were dating classmates or from parallel class. But well, I live in Poland, maybe another culture of having relationships...

I think women tend to have in interest in elder not because they are elder but they seem to be more self-confident, funny, have greater experience. But if you posess all of it being younger, it shouldn't be an obstacle.

thanks for all the replies, they all helped in one way or another. Now i want to focus on this belive that girls prefer older men, and am sure this isn't just the 17 year olds. Surely girls go for expreince rather than the actual amount of days you spent on planet earth. Because really without the experince being older than the girl doesnt really matter.
For example lets says there's this girl who is 17 year old , and a man of 19 tries to pick her up. She will not fall for him unless he has more experince than her, unless he has stornger belives and a stronger grip on reality. I mean if this guy still sits at home playing warcradt - she would be disgutsted by him. Age by itself is not strong enough, I think girls look for more "experinced" guys rather than "older" guys. Guys who are mentally "older" and mature, rather than having being alive longer than her.
With this in mind, men of any age can get girls of any age. I mean am sure if I showed signs of having strong belives and deep experince I can get a 17 year old.

I like getting coffee and staring at the roof of Zloty Tarasy. If you have been to Warsaw you might know what I mean. It is very meditative. I was going out with this one young lady. She stared at me and I stared at the roof. Sadly, her parents loved me more than I loved her. I can only imagine the thrill it must be for Polish parents to have their daughter date an American. Even one who meditates most of the day away.

Polish girls make me glow. I should post a pic of me in Warsaw.

Polish girls are as attractive as Polish guys are not! Kinda the reverse of America. Polish guys are men though. More than I can say for my fellow American brothers.

So do Polish people use interia.pl?? Just wondering.