I met this girl through craigslist to get some private math lessons and she turned out to be a 9 (10 if she had a bigger chest) and very smart. Naturally, I decided to game her and I got her to like me through comfort and kino. She has repeatedely told me she wanted to fuck me badly because she hasn't had it for a long time (even though she knows I'm seeing someone else). The problem is that she has been married for a couple of years now, but her husband is in another country and she hadn't seen him in about 3 months (now like 5). I got her over to my place and even got her to pin me down to my bed with the dogger dinner bowl look. When I tried to kiss her, she freaked out and started crying because she had a husband overseas but wanted to fuck me at the same time. Then she said that she wouldn't ever fuck me. She then wanted me to walk her home, but I didn't supplicate and she left alone feeling upset (Hah, I didn't even walk her to the door). Of course she came back to see me the next day with cheaper lessons (likely as an apology).

At this point, some people would recommend that I go for it again and give her some sort of ultimatum if she refuses to kiss or fuck. The problem is that I'm getting these math lessons at an incredible price because she likes me so much (at one point she was only asking for 30% of the going rate). This means that if I give her an ultimatum, I'd risk losing my lessons too which are very valuable to me. This is kind of like the diamonds and gold story, but the gold I'm getting is the cheap lessons (which is good, but I'd like sex too).

She went out of town and will be back in a few weeks. She was worried that I'd find someone else to get math lessons and bribed me with free lessons if I waited until she came back. So right now as I wait for her return, I've been thinking about what to do.

I've decided to seduce her again when she gets back (now I know she won't cancel lessons just for this), but I don't know what to do if she refuses to kiss/fuck. I don't want to give her an ultimatum because that's too risky. It's clear that she wants to fuck me (she made it explicit), but it's also clear that she values her marriage. Any suggestions?

sorry to bust your balls bro.. but you shouldn't even started making her feel the way she feels (wanting to fuck) after you found out she was married.. some people can't help but flirt and all.. but should've said to her that it should be strictly professional between you two.. then no one would be in this sticky situation... basically leavin it alone, taking control, and not letting her pin you in the bed.. my 2cents..

this is basically going to be hard for you.. you actually have to decide which one is worth more... lessons or sex.. yea you're getting a great discount.. but if you look at the bigger picture.. you have a married woman basically going psycho on you.. because she knows she's married.. but wants to fuck you?.. in the end.. i think that's just a hole you're trying to dig..

My friend, IMO you should respect her marriage even if she doesn't...get your math lessons, and no fucking or kissing. I won't even go into the "would you want someone to do this to you" lecture...suppose she's screws you, feels guilty, confesses to the hubby, and the hubby comes and puts a bullet in your head. Is getting laid worth that? Not to me...YMMV. And that probably wouldn't happen...but note that it does happen ALL the time, just look up the news from any city on the internet.

There are plenty of single women to fuck...don't take this risk, bro.

Gruuve

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Divorced dude having a good life.

I fully agree with those two, married women should be off limits NO MATTER WHAT!!! And if her husband is over seas fighting in the war, which I assume is whats going on, then you would be fucked if he ever found out. You gotta have better morals than that man, no offense, but come on, cheating on a boyfriend is one thing, on a husband is a completely different box of worms! I don't know about you, but I respect the people that are overseas fighting in the war! Getting married women to cheat on their husbands is def not what this community is all about!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the responses guys.

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the ethics of seducing married women, but I'm personally not against it. Recent statistics show that 65% of women have admitted to cheating (the source is msnbc, I can't post links yet so just google it) on their husbands and half of marriages end in divorce. Apparently married women often want to have sex with other people under certain circumstances. These people are not being raped (unless you count them moaning in ecstasy begging for more as rape).

If someone fucked my wife with her consent, I wouldn't go berserk because I'd be in an open marriage (with certain agreed upon rules). I could get jealous, but I'd try to control that just like I'm taught to control jealousy in all other areas of my life. If my wife ends up leaving me, I will try accept it as my fault and not blame it on the man she liked better. Then I would try to be a better man so it doesn't happen again. I know, easier said than done, but having sex with one person until you die is not so easy either (just look at the statistics). IMHO I think sexual suppression is generally worse for mental health than suppressing jealousy. I have yet to see people start to molest children because their suppression of jealousy built up so much.

Gruuve: What you said about the safety issue did give me some pause. It's definitely not worth it in some situations like when you've actually met the husband or if the husband is in the area. In my specific case, I will have already left my current living location by the time the husband can even afford to come to this country, so I have nothing to fear (and no, he's not a high ranking official in the government who can track me down). This is actually less risky than hitting on a girl with a borefriend who happens to live in the same city as you. I'm glad you brought up this point though because I have unwisely overlooked it.

Before ending this post, I'd like to add some other tidbits about my situation. She has joked about me marrying her and brought up the topic of divorce once (which I didn't elicit from her in any way).

I think I just opened up a large can of worms, but at least this thread will get more hits that way. It seems the consensus on married women is divided here (with more on the don't do it side hehe).

I do have a lot of respect for people defending our country, but the husband is not in the military.

I think there are limits on who to seduce. If the person is question has children and is happily married, I would avoid doing any PU. The stakes are too high with children involved.

I pray that the soldier has Juggernaut and Deep Penetration. I know I always had Second Chance when I was in country.

Okay, I read this forum some more and it looks like it is controversial to hit on girls with boyfriends, so I assume hitting on a wife ranks somewhere up there with infanticide. I didn't even know that the usage of NLP was controversial (Does that stuff even work?).

I guess you guys have cut me some slack since this is the newbie board hehe.

Just to add to my post, I have never used any husband/boyfriend destroyer patterns on her and I have never lied to her. I'm actually terrible at PU and I've supplicated without even meaning to many times. She likes me a lot and I like her a lot. I don't have any intention of just fucking her and leaving her to rot. Part of the reason I want to fuck is so that we can hang out and have some fun without me being frustrated because she wears a short skirt. She says she really enjoys being with me and that I really make her day just by seeing her. I'd like to do that outside of lessons too.

It's odd to me that the majority of society sides with the person that was cheated on and even sympathizes with them at times when they become violent. If my annoying coworker got a raise by kissing more ass than me and I got jealous to the point of violence, I would be considered a lunatic. If a man gets violent because another man had sex with his wife, many people would say "well he had it coming". Shouldn't we just control our jealousy in either case?

I think this is an interesting topic and I hope to see people's views on this (hopefully it'll be kept civil .

Dude...I realize that you might not be the type of person who would go berserk if someone fucked your wife (I'm not either...I wouldn't go berserk...however, depending on the circumstances I might get even in a cold and calculating way, to be honest). However, there are plenty of men (otherwise totally cool fellows) who would indeed go berserk and hunt you down like an animal for screwing their wife. Again, just read the news and see how many spouses and lovers have been murdered for cheating. Marriage is a serious commitment (versus having a boyfriend), and most people see it that way. Everyone (including married people) feel tempted...married people are expected to fullfill their obligation and say no to their temptations...that's one of the promises spouses make to each other. (Now if they have an open marriage already, that's a different story, that's not cheating...however, she definitely would have told you by now if that were the case.) I don't hesitate to hit on someone who has a boyfriend...however, a married woman is a totally different story in my book. And yes, a signficant percentage of spouses (male or female) cheat...however, that doesn't mean that you need to assist them in that endeavor.

The obligation I mentioned above isn't just a moral obligation...it's a legal one as well. My wife and I were trying an open marriage. It got out of hand, I busted my wife begging some loser to run away with her, while he was encouraging her to leave me. I dumped her stupid ass, so that's what she loses (and if she fucks with me, I could easily take every thing that she owns and kick her to the curb with nothing). And he doesn't know it yet, but assuming we divorce, he'll likely be seeing a lawsuit for alienation of affection from me...my estranged wife's 73-page chat log with him very easily proves it, according to my attorney. I'll be taking his money from him for quite a long time for punitive damages and he has absolutely no clue it's coming...I can't wait! I wish I could see the look on his face the day he gets served the necessary documents.

Cheers,
Gruuve

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Divorced dude having a good life.

Guillermo Do you even respect this girl? Because it seems you don't.

Thanks for sharing that Gruuve. I'm sorry to hear that your open marriage didn't work out. I also never heard of alienation of affection so it was interesting to look that up. You have the ability to sue that person, but I wouldn't be able to since I'm from one of the 42 states that had abolished that tort.

I think I have a little trouble understanding why it's not okay to seduce a married person while it is legitimate to seduce someone with a boyfriend or girlfriend. Unmarried couples promise each other not to sleep around also. Some unmarried couples stay with each other happily until they die without ever getting married. Boyfriends can get murderously jealous like husbands and have killed guys sleeping with their girlfriends. While marriage is a stronger (and more expensive) commitment, it says nothing about the happiness of the relationship. An unmarried couple can be in much better shape than a married couple. Wouldn't it be worse to ruin a happily unmarried couple than a miserable marriage that was falling apart? If marriage is the only thing keeping a girl from sleeping with other people, then the marriage probably has some issues. Apparently marriage doesn't even keep half the women to stay loyal to their husbands. Isn't it better to look at the situation the girl is in instead of drawing a distinct moral line between seducing married people and unmarried lovers?

jurupa: I do respect her. I respect her by acknowledging that she can make her own choices in life. She had the choice to reject me like she rejected every other guy but didn't. She has told me many stories where she cancelled lessons on the spot because the guy was coming on to her. She even screens guys before giving them lessons if they ask her in person. Isn't it more disrespectful to the girl to insinuate that she can't control her own life without me following some moral advice I found on an internet message board (not to downplay the advice)? One of the reasons why I respect her so much is that she's exactly the kind of girl who wouldn't stay with a spouse that was beating her. She ended a relationship once by knocking out her boyfriend after he hit her. Who wouldn't respect that?

Also I'd like to touch upon the commonly used saying "Leave her better off than when you found her". I agree with this rule of thumb (although it's ironic that this is used on a forum dedicated for heartbreakers). However, better off is vague and hard to predict. It's clear in some instances that she will not be better off like if you hit her regularly and make verbal attacks. It's also off limits to tempt a happily married mother with children. I do think it's a hasty assumption to say that having sex with a married person will necessarily make her life worse. Her values could change, or she may learn more about herself. Maybe she finds out some weakness she has with staying away from guys and is more careful when planning to have children. Maybe she confesses to her husband and her husband decides to confess that he's cheated also while they were apart preventing a mutual buildup of secrets that could lead to years of misery. There are so many variables that I think it's hard to put clear lines on what would make the person better off or worse off in certain situations.

Dude, you can say whatever you want to rationalize what you are doing and by all means do whatever makes you happy. I'm just saying that my personal morals and the morals for what the whole PUA community is built around says that you shouldn't persue married women after they tell you that they are married. Period!

Dude, absolutely no offense intended, but you are rationalizing your one-itis here. (I know this because I was close to a situation like this once.) Look at it this way: if this married woman wants to fuck you, there are probably half a dozen single women who want to fuck you. Rather than participating in pre-meditated homewrecking, go find those half a dozen single women and have a friggin' ball.

On the question of boyfriend vs husband...yeah, there's a lot of grey area there. With an unmarried (and unengaged) couple, there certainly may be some commitments...but you don't know what those commitments are. With a married couple, you know what those commitments are. If the unmarried couple were truly committed to each other AND HAD NO INTENTION TO EVER CHANGE THAT REGARDLESS OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES, they'd be married or engaged. In my mind, that's the difference...the commitments are formalized, legalized, and made public. That's essentially what marriage is. Whether the marriage is happy or not is essentially none of your business. If she wants to fuck you, let her seperate or otherwise start divorce proceedings first.

Gruuve

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Divorced dude having a good life.

I agree with this... it does not matter if the marriage is happy or not.. it's not your business.. the couple have their own problems.. if you are planning to be that better guy, then wait for them to settle it between them first.. and if she's really into you, knowing that she will be off better with you.. then she will LEAVE her husband and come to you..

now think about this.. if the possibility of her leaving her husband for you, because she sees that you are better than her husband.. isn't there a chance that once you are together, there will be a possibility that she leaves you when she find someone better.. KARMA! think about that for a sec. i really think that you're diagnose a one-itis here.. from what i've gathered from your previous post is that you are in the verge of putting the pussy in the pedestal! first symptoms!..
I do agree about "leave her better off than when you found her". But i think you're missing the point when you think this forum are focused on heartbreakers.. some people used their skills for good and some bad.. but IMHO.. this quote if properly done correctly, is used to benefit the PUA and the HB.

If a man has a one-itis and having blue balls off of her, he will do everything he can to make her believe that he is better than what she has right now. But after they fuck, the interest will disappear since the guy benefited from it. Leaving the girl confused. (Some guys do this, and to be honest, I have done this before)

I know it's a long post, and i'm not trying to attack you. Just putting out my 2cents. It's really hard for me to explain, but hope that I still get my point across. In the end, it's still your decision. Good luck!

I think the difference between us lies in how we perceive marriage. I don't see it as something profoundly different from a regular relationship. Getting a tax break, some documents, and exchanging rings are not good reasons for staying together. Married couples also have societal pressure to stick together which makes it harder to be objective about the sincerety of the relationship. Maybe the couples that don't marry just don't want to deal with that. I don't think they are any less desiring of a committed relationship. There's nothing wrong with having caveats to commitments. What's wrong with "We will always stick together as long as the relationship doesn't turn fearful and abusive"?

With almost half of marriages ending in divorce (and rising), it's hard to think that one could know the validity of the commitments of a married couple. I don't think it's enough to say "we're commited" and many people act as if it is. This is why marriage is having trouble keeping up with modernity. Girls are dressing sexier, spouses are getting fatter, and sexual jealousy is still socially acceptable. This combined with the complacement notion that marriage puts some sort of protective barrier around the couple leads to failed relationships. EyeCrush even mentioned that marriage is possibly an antiquated human construct that could be phased out in the future. It looks even worse when you account for people who want to divorce but can't.

It is up to the wife or girlfriend to say if the status of her relationship is my business or not. It actually does matter what the state of a relationship is in a marriage or unmarried relationship because you can get a better sense of what you may wreck. Simply categorizing a married person as off limits while placing the unmarried person as fair game will cause more ethical issues. Each situation calls for something different. There are plenty of unmarried couples with more to lose than married couples.

Oneitis is not completely accurate since I haven't even attempted a proper kiss close yet (we haven't even met outside of lessons yet). I'm also meeting other girls, but I don't write about them. In my original post it may appear that I plotted this large scheme to rip her out of her husband's arms (perhaps words like game were a bit strong), but I just had private lessons in private locations with some mild kino. Comfort comes natural for me with pretty much anyone. For lack of better terms, we clicked. If my goal was pre-mediated homewrecking, I would have sent all her e-mails to me to her husband.

I'm not worried about this coming back to bite me in the ass (karma) because I've accepted it. If a girl leaves me for someone else, I'll blame myself and only myself. I don't want to be with a girl if the only reason she's staying is because of societal pressure. I value sincerity over commitment.

On another note, I think I have underestimated the power of PU and perhaps the powerful desires a woman can have for a man. It's like the struggle between self-responsibility and public interest. McDonald's is bad for you, but it's still your choice to eat it or not.