I have an over 10 year friendship with a woman. I am 44 and she is 46, both never married and no children.

For the first nine years that we have known each other, I had a decent social life and never saw her on fri or sat night.

Last summer (2008) we began to spend a lot of time together. I fell for her hard, believed that the reason we were friends for so long was because we were "meant to be" and made every mistake that could be made. I put her on a pedestal, catered to her every need and paid for everything.

Naturally, when I revealed my feelings, in the fall, I got nowhere.

Around Christmas time I did a complete "no contact" without explanation. This was probably a mistake as I should have employed a limited contact/jealousy scenario instead.

I re initiated contact with her about 2 weeks ago. I did it without apology (email) or showing excessive weakness. I just said that it's stupid that we're not talking and life is too short for this.

She agreed to resume contact the next day.

We emailed back and forth about mostly insignificant bullshit for a few days (except that she asked my opinion about a psychiatrist that she was interested in seeing - sent his website, I KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY IT! )

Last Friday, she sent me an email stating that we have to be clear that neither of us can be weird about the other dating if our friendship was to resume. I responded that I used the time we had no contact to get back in the swing of things and start dating anyway. She replied that she was so happy that I agreed and was "worried" that I wouldn't want to be friends.

I am in the process of "reinventing" myself to even the playing field and realize that it is a lengthy process.

For example, I know that I was not a challenge to her, that I was always available and far too easy going.

I now cut off contact randomly for a day or two. Tell her stories that highlight "alpha male" type activities and have not asked to see her at all. Our only contact has been through email thus far. She lives about 20 minutes from me.

One other thing. She has a history of accepting abusive relationships from men and borderline abusive relationships from business associates (male or female) and lousy friendships with women where she is usually in the subservient role. She is clearly the kind that will work to win over abusers and push away nice guys.

Does anyone have any specific suggestions that you could share with me?

I am also dating other women, so I am not in a full "Oneitis" mode.

Also, please spare me the "move on" and "forget about her" advice. I already know about that. I am looking to "flip" her while also persing others.

Thank you everyone.

Sm,,, that's a real tough one. A real tough one. Not taking a pass is a bold move and is going to take a lot of work. The problem you're running into seems to be that she knows you so well. There's no bullshiting her. Add to that, you're not her type. So you got a preblem.

From what you've said,,, you're really the only nice guy in her life. Sounds like she has crappy friends too.

I have two takes on this that you're going to have to decide on youself. First off, you very well may be in the classic "friends" trap. Simple as that.

But something else to consider and only you'll be able to know this. Does she have "issues". People who are attracted to negative relationships typically have issues. They expect and react to bad SPAM. Nice gets boring for them.

Is she from a broken home? Has something bad happened to her?

If she actually does have those types of issues,, I think it's going to be very, very hard for you. Personally, I'd take a pass. I wouldn't want that in my life.

Now on the other hand,, if it's not that and she's just got you down as a "little brother",, well then you can work around that. Seems like you already know many of the techniques. But here is what I'd add.

Techniques won't fix this. Only a real change in you can change things. Yeah,, changing for a lady sounds like a dumb idea. But in this case I would say do it, because the change we're talking about is making you a better person. SOmeone who's more confident in yourself and understands people better. This not only has an application for women, but it transcends into your career and other important areas too.

So it seems like you are in a good spot. Keep your freindship and work on yourself. Two areas that I would point you towards. Seduction techniques, find them here or google it. Start suttle.

Next when you want to develope your skills, techniues are good, but dive into the section on being a natural. Because that is exactly what you have to be in this case. Naturals can't be "found out", because they are always that way. There is no gimmicks to go bad. Getting to be a natural isn't being someone else, it's being who you are in a better way.

You don't need to be like the jerks in her life. But dude,,, you start dating some really hot women, and that is going to be a very powerful, profound thing. She's is really going to want to know what all the fuss is about.

Can you imagine when you start sending pictures of hot babes to her, just to "get her opinion" on them?

But here's the weird deal,,,, if you can get yourself to that level, you may change your mind on her. Probably will.

Good luck!

I appreciate you taking the time for such a long and thoughtful response.

She is from a broken home and is usually in a state of denial about a lot of her problems. Her "friends" treat her like shit.

With regard to me, I need to change anyway. I've blown tons of opportunities because I tried to be a nice guy. I bought FJ Shark's "How to be a Jerk" book in the mid 90's and I did well following that advice. Until recently, I haven't looked at the book in years and have paid the price.

I have the look of the classic "alpha male" and I get a good amount of attention, only to blow it by being "Mr. Nice Guy" . I'm talking repeatedly. This process is a huge wake up call for me. I also look about 10 years younger than my age, so I feel that even though I'm way late in getting into this, it will still benefit my life.

I'm reading tons of e-books and even some hypnosis mp3's.

She's starting to drop a few hints about us see each other in her emails, but I'm not taking the bait. I feel that it is just her testing to see if she can get her sucker back. This is a long haul and I realize that the prize has to be a better me and not just winning her.

Thank you again.

That's a good sign that she is dropping some hints. But keep cotrol of things. Don't bite, like you said. make her bite.


I think I might take you up the the tip about the being a jerk book. There are definately times I need to be more of a jerk. I can definately be too nice.

Good luck. But what a task! Dang,, seems like a lot of effort. I guess from your angle it will work out good for you either with this lady or another. But the women I've met like this seemed to never be worth the effort. It's like they are killing themselves to find the worst possible guy to be with.

I think it's an esteem issue....

It is a lot of effort, but the rational part of my brain(what's left of it) is taking the position that she is merely the vehicle to get me back on track. Just based on her age alone, I know that I am better off finding someone else. The heart wants what the heart wants though. Should be an interesting experience though.

Update:

In the past few days I got an "I miss you" email and a couple of other ones suggesting that she wants to see me.

I'm still not taking the bait.