I have been out with a girl something like 4 times, she was into me from the beginning and we made out pretty fast, although I never went to far. Actually I tried, but she would not allow it, so I decided to remain calm en slow things down. I tried more than once and she usually calls me back in friendly way without being to arrogant, although once or twice she seemed bothered by the fact that I do not respect her choice to take things slowly. Instead, I remained calm and unaffected by her and she seemed to find this quite arrogant, thinking I am too aloof. I am still in contact with the girl, although I experience some strange things with her: sometimes she is really enthousiastic (calling, msg-ing etc) and a day later it takes her a whole day to respond to my calls, msg-ing etc. I never ask why she doesn't respond immidiately, but it makes me wonder sometimes. However, I think this is the most I can do: not getting too emotional (I am talking about me being calm and aloof, but I really have to work for this and it's getting more difficult as the girl is probably 8-9 on scale 1-10).

So the problem is I am getting the feeling that keeping composure becomes difficult and try to stay away from the wuss-zone as far as possible, but not being seen as arrogant and disrespectful. The girl is either playing with me or is truly sometimes disappointed with my actions. The good thing is that she is attracted to me, but I doubt whether she is really comforted with me. She also mentions often that I am too "aggressive" compared to what she is used (due to her looks and coquetting play she often manages to get guys being very careful and scared to piss her off by doing something that she disapproves). My approach is, to say, quite "bold and confident". I try to mix it up with quite some humor (often sexual innuendo's) and this is what keeps it on, otherwise she would have dropped me immediately, I guess.

She also uses all kind of tricks and tests on me (like what is with your other dates, I have been warned about you by someone who knows you, are you a player, I can see that you are not settling with one girl and blablablaah...). Remember, she says this while she kisses me and calls me the creaziest guy she knows, and this tells me she is into me, but she sometimes does not call or even return my calls immidiately (within 2 hours). I don't blame her, as she knows the game well and due to the fact that she is pursued by many guys, she knows how to play the coquette if she wants.

So what can be done best at this point? Slowing down a little bit with cocky behavior and sexual moves, calling more often (she says I do not call as much as she is used from others), being little bit more nice, showing more affection? I could also start playing the coquette myself, but I can imagine two thing can happen in this case:
1. she goes crazy and starts chasing me like never before
2. she cools down by thinking this guy is not serious, its better to lose him now than later

As you guess, I dont want this second thing to happen, so I am careful with coquettng

I can tell you she is definitely one of those girls who want to be controlled by the guy, so that's the reason that I rather would not like to expose some of my wussy traits to her. On the other hand, I don't want to lose terrain by being overconfident, arrogant or disrespectful.

So how to proceed "safe"? So far I have played well (judging from results so far), but things are getting more difficult as I am feeling that I am into her. What I actually want is to hook her to such an extent that she drops her testing on me and get her to chase me a little bit. I have no bad intentions, as a matter of fact I am starting to feel strong attraction to her and the urge to open up myself to her. What I want is her to do this first.

Your post reads like this:

I don't want to be wussy but I am. I don't want to be wussy but I am.
She wants me to control her but I don't want to. She wants me to control her but I don't want to.
Do you also wish she had balls and you had a vagina? If you were my little bro, I'd give you a swift kick in the ass!

I know.

This is what I intend to do next:

1. Keeping total composure no matter what
2. Staying cool with this girl (no blaming her, even though she blames me when I don't answer calls quickly), regardless whether she is really into me or not. I guess this implies confidence.
3. When I am tested, responding vague, responding not at all or responding with a tease (but always laughing a little bit)
4. When setting up a date with her, imposing the date on her (for example: "I will meet you next Saturday. I will call you to let you know where and what time") and waiting for her reaction, instead of asking: "Do you feel like we go out next Saturday evening?".
5. Getting out and meet a couple of new women and get their phone number, even if it's only for distraction purposes

I have the idea that if I don't stick to these points, I will develop one-itis in no-time and screw up everything in a wussy way.

What do you think of this and do you have other suggestions?


There is also something else, a more general thing. When a guy meets a women and starts dating her, what should be a good ratio when it comes to the phone game, msg-ing etc? What I mean is the following. Say, I went last night out with some girl and the date went very well (kino, kissing, physical progression etc). The next few days, I will not see her as I have no time and she has no time. But there is every reason to assume a next date. How does a PUA address the issue when it comes to frequency of calling, msg-ing? Are there rules for this? Something like I will call her once a day, or once every second day or even less often by playing a little bit coquette. The assumption is that she responds neatly to almost every call or text msg, but 'having hard time' to start first with calling and msg-ing. So, in this stage the women is not hooked to a point that she chases the guy, but with some good game she likely will get there. How to address this issue properly?

Here is an example of what I mean. Suppose I went out with her two days ago and thing worked out well. Than, the next day, I don't call nor msg. her and neither does she. The second day I message her something casual:

ME: "hey, how's things, what's up, how was your day?"
HB>8: "hey, it's been pretty rough, I got home tired. How was yours, what are you doing?"

Option 1: "I am tired too, watching tv, want to go to bed soon." If she msg's back, the 'conversation' stays on for the moment
Option 2: "I had a great day, I am out for a drink with a friend." If she msg's back, the 'conversation' stays on for the moment
Option 3: Calling her and have a chat with her, then ending the conversation first
Option 4: Continuing msg-ing in a casual, light and playful way, risking the possibility that she stops the 'conversation' when she feels like
Option 5: not responding at all. If she mentions that I am being flaky, I respond with something like "I was tired, went to bed immediately"

Most of my messages above don't imply neediness and insecurity. But is there the chance that the women experience's this as me being flaky or unthoughtful towards her? After all most HB's>8 are used to attention and guys calling and msg-ing until she cuts off the interaction.

I think the volume of your calls and messages to this girl probably do imply neediness and insecurity to this girl. The fact that you get antsy if she doesn't call/ text you back right away says a lot, too. To me, a guy who called every other day after only four dates would still be needy. I'd suggest you see her once a week, casually date other girls in the mean time, and call her only when you want to set a date. And don't blow up her phone if she takes a day or so getting back to you.
I think that from her actions, she probably likes you if you don't blow it. She might be using the Rules on you- a chick version of hiding her interest by playing hard-to-get. So far it's working on you, but you can always turn it around. Best of luck!

Allright man, thanks.

As far as the phone game is concerned, she likes to mention that she is not used to a guy calling only every other day. Her story is that when she meets a guy, he usually calls multiple times a day, so she sometimes tells me I should give her more attention by calling, msg-ing. This is BS of course. I called until now every other day and fortunately it was me each time who ends the conversation first. I will call from now on once or twice a week (setting up the date).

Apart from the phone, there is the MSN messenger, facebook etc. I have her MSN-adress and usually I am online every other night, so is she. What about this? Somebody has to initiate online first (she does this regularly by the way). Is it good when a guy stays 'invisible' online, so to give her the chance to build little bit of anticipation? Or just going online and talking to her every day or every other day? This part of the game is not really clear to me yet.

By the way, I have set up some dates with other two different women. For next three consecutive days I expect to go out with 3 of them (unfortunately the other two are kind of HB6-7, but it does't matter)

Great! I'm glad you've got some dates going on.

You never know, she really could be used to this behavior. If she has this effect on you, imagine what she does to regular AFC guys.

As far as being online every night, I don't think the conversation itself/ who initiates it is a problem. The problem is the fact that you're online all so often. (For example, if I'm online it's usually like 5am or I'm waiting on something. Right now I'm waiting for my ride to get here.) This signals to her that you have lots of free time (even if you do, she doesn't have to know!) It devalues you, so try and be online a bit less often or for shorter intervals.

I think it's perfectly ok to be online for a bit before you head out to do something fun. In fact, this is a great way to invite her to something if you want to see her. The idea is that you can only send her a quick note because you are on your way to something incredibly fun and awesome with some cool people. Would she like to join? (Try using a last minute invite, and don't do it every time.) The more busy/ fun your life is, the more value she sees in you.

Okey, here is an update of the situation:

The girl expressed openly serious desinterest!!! She camouflaged it a bit by accusing me of extreme physical escalation which is for her to early. Also she states watching my moves in the proximity of other women accusing me of lack of desinterest in her as I occasionally would look at these other women. Finally, she talks about her being not ready for a new relationship or whatever. Anyway, my game was poor, that's for sure! I don't think I have been a was bag as she has mentioned a couple of times that she used to enjoy more attention of other guys (guys chasing her).


So, what is there to be learned from this?

- wussy behaviour?
As I said, I dont think that this has been the case. Or was it? Let me give you an overview of thing happened last 7 days.
Last Saturday I took her to a bar, sat with her not touching her. She used to touch me as she felt really comfortable. Later that evening I take her with my car at an kind of isolated place. We make out big time. She likes it but makes clear that I am on the edge of what she is willing to accept (I was trying to physically escalate and she did not like this as she warned me a few times. By the way, I did this also previous time and the time before we went out and she warned me then as well).

Than the next day she calls me and seems very enthusiastic. Then from Monday on I hear nothing from her. I called her twice and msg-ed a few times Monday-Friday. She answered everything and things seemed fine.


- unthoughtfullness and untimed physical escalation
I am suspecting this one, but I am not sure. As I said she warned me a few times and I didn't listen really. It's a HB>8 and I found it very difficult to control myself. So I proceeded aloof and didn't really take notice of her warnings.

- display of lack of interest for her
BULLSHIT!!!

- she not being ready (recently broke up after a 2 year relationship)
I dont know, but something tells me this is bullshit as well

I did notice her being flaky a little bit last few days, but I did not expect her to blow everything off instantly. She messaged something like this: "tomorrow it (the date) will not go through, its better that we stop seeing each other, she is not sure about things, does not have a good feeling about things, blablablah.."

I can't say that I am happy with the situation, honestly. Fortunately, I have a few other women to game (I can use it at this moment). This one, I deleted from my phone list and MSN. Any further interaction, if any, will be her responsibility (I do not intend to ignore her). In ended the last (phone) conservation in a calm way, although she realizes that I was disappointed.

I think I am gonna check out Mystery Method and some other good stuff and at the same time keep gaming out there. Until now I have reviewed quickly D. Deangelo (double your dating and attraction is not a choice) and a part of Swingcat's material. I intend to review this once again before I start on "The Game" by Neil Strauss and Mystery.

Anybody comments, suggestions etc on this (part of the) game?