OK, I met an HB9 at school - she's slightly younger than me (17, I'm 18 ) and after chatting with her for a short while, I asked her out for a drink, which she said sounded cool, and we did that. Once we had had a couple of cocktails in a bar, she suggested a walk and we went down and sat by the river for a couple of hours until I had to leave.

My plan was originally to hang on with the kino escalation and k-close until the second date, especially since I'd only really spoken with her quite briefly and planned on getting to know her rather than anything. So we chatted for hours and it seemed to go pretty well.

I still chat to her most evenings on MSN - she usually initiates conversation - and text a bit. But it's been a week since the last date, and the only time I mentioned taking her out again, she told me she was too busy at the moment (I think she's telling the truth, but it's possibly just evasion). I hardly see her at school, because she has wildly different friends to me, and to try and infiltrate the group would be extremely transparent and make me look clingy.

So on one level,

She always starts conversations on MSN

She expressed genuine disappointment that she couldn't come out to a party I was at last night,

She said she wasn't free in the near future when I asked her out again

She has been on a massive 'offloading' spiel with me recently, telling me all about her emotional side and how she feels realy insecure and over-emotional all the time. She also said in this that she had mixed opinions about everything - me included, and warning me that she has led a lot of blokes on with no result recently. It's difficult to tell whether this was a type of friends speech or whether she was offloading emotionally because I had attracted her...

What do we think? Am I in the friend zone or can I get this working?

i dont care what anyone says, you can almost never lose your chance unless you fuck up majorly. i bet alot of us have dug ourselves out of friendship holes like nothing.
In your situation everything seems good, just dont over think it.
Go read a book, no not a book on pick up. get your mind off shitt.
and where do you live to be able to go to the bars? fakess?

what did you say when you asked her out?
what did she say?

her starting convos is good (Y)
i usually delete targets off msn and phone so i cant start convos

"She also said in this that she had mixed opinions about everything - me included, and warning me that she has led a lot of blokes on with no result recently."

in this it seems she wants you to like her, bringing up "no result". so basically bored of being lonely maybe?
but on the other hand saying "led on" wtf?!
maybe shes saying she doesnt want to put effort in(or show more interest first, hense using "LED ON" to show mixed signals. would you like to show interest in a girl then her blow you out of the water?naw it sucks.) if there isnt going to be a result.

so yeah, get you mind off this, yeah its hard but im sure you can do it

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Dontbefickle - thanks for the helpful post.

I'll try and just be chilled out I guess.
In the UK, you can drink at 18. We were at a cocktail bar where they don't really ID unless you look about 12.

I said:
'Hey, wondering if you fancy coming out for a drink sometime and getting to know each other better?'

She said:

'heya, that sounds nice but I doubt I'll get served!'

I convinced her otherwise and we went. For the record, before the date I made sure to make a couple of SOIs.

That conversation was really weird - she was basically telling me everything about herself - offloading all her emotions. She was saying how she always feels too emotional and indecisive, and that this meant she couldn't make her mind up about me. She also mentioned an ex- how she really loved this guy until like 8 months ago and since then nothing has felt the same (obviously - I mean what the hell?).

You're basically saying to take it easy and let her initiate any conversation, right?

By the way, I greatly appreciate dontbefickle's response, but other opinions would also be helpful

Quick update: I did what you suggested, DBF, and it worked! I just ignored the fact that she was online all afternoon, then went out for a few hours. Come back and she instantly starts a conversation, asking questions, IOIs everywhere. Problem is, I know this won't last. Escalating it could prove difficult, especially since she's so busy at the moment!

Since she is interested in you... you should now start telegraphing interest in her... sthing such as ¨Not only you are sexy but (something good about her that makes her unique)¨ (Juggler). Maybe you can run the Cube routine on her it es easy and you learn a lot about the girl and of course continue with the kino when you are face to face She showed you her interest now it is your turn to do the same or she will get bored.

One good thing about the game is that it can create 'attraction'. However, just as quickly, it can wear off.

Its good that this girl initiates conversation with you! However, when it feels right, you should be responsive too. Clearly she is looking for some emotional validation from you, it would be better at some point to respond to that.

From what I can see (and to a large extent, this is an assumption), you seem to like this girl, and you are not all arrogant about f-closing this girl. Its good to see that you are slowly closing on this girl. In many cases, its better to do that than pounce on someone. She seems a bit more reserved type, someone who seemingly has been hurt in the past.

And like DRG mentions, she seems to imply that she is lonely. I think perseverance and a bit of push-pull is the key here. You seem to be doing well so far. Don't be completely laid back though, it does need some work, but its not a complete gone case, if that makes sense.

Like SuperM said, if you don't show interest, she WILL get bored, and put you in the friend zone. Same would happen if you were to show too much interest. Balance is the key and perhaps a blind search for eutopia.

Cheers for the advice so far, all.

I appreciate the ideas about now returning interest. Problem is, I don't have time to meet or speak with her any other way than MSN at the moment without asking her out again. I basically need to get to the stage where I can get her to agree to another date so I can try some face-to-face eye contact and kino. Saw her at school once or twice today and she gave me an enormous smile each time - good IOI I guess. Made sure I acted cool and returned with a little smile and raising my eyebrows slightly.

I should say that before I found PUA, I was acting like an AFC with her - she might be confused by how I changed my attitudes. Sent a fairly embarassing text. I think I've avoided disaster, but she knows full well that I'm interested.

I might either phone her or talk to her on MSN tonight, and see if I'm able to work it further with more DHV and push/pull. If the time is right, I could ask her again. Is it worth it, though - I know I'm not free until next week, and don't think she is either. Opinions?

Can't actually give you an opinion on this, but I will answer something you raised:
I think in a way she might be mystified with your recent change. When one changes (or tries to change from) AFC to PUA, one of the following 2 things can happen:

1. If the girl has no/less feelings for you: She will be attracted to you, in a rather major fashion. Reason is simple that she would find the recent change attractive. As mentioned, it would mystify here, showing Value, something she didn't know of before.

2. If the girl has some feelings for you: If she sees this change, at best, she will be attracted to you for a bit longer. However, she might find it rather repulsive to see you become a bit cocky and arrogant. She would to an extent, resent you, although resent is a rather stong word. No matter how much things improve, sadly things will go down from here. However, as time passes, she will again be attracted to you, or regret not taking that step.

Anyways, seems like your case seems to be the former, which is greate fella. Hope things go well from here.

Hmm, well I obviously mis-read the signs. Slipped the idea of a coffee into a fairly philosophical conversation, and this happened:
Not a lot I could think of to come back from that. I'll just cut my losses I think! Feedback on how I tried to pull it off? I'm aware it was far from perfect!

I don't understand why you don't open her entire group of friends. You should do that and make her jealous to make her really feel a great emotion towards you. One thing that makes a woman like you more and make her change her mind is see you with another woman. Jealousy is a strong emotion, remember that.

It's good that she starts conversation but make sure that you aren't making her too comfortable, the last thing you want to have happen to you is be put in the friend zone.

Telling you about her problems is one way of opening up to you because she trusts you. This is a good sign. However, like you said she has mixed opinion about you meaning that she either can't tell if you're man enough to have her OR she just might not be attracted to you.

I suggest you just stay C&F all the way and you will get what you want hopefully. Otherwise, consider this a dead set and move on.

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Why is the Rhum gone?!

You telegraphed too much interest.

Also when when she said 'ultimate right really?' it was a shit test. You should have messed with her and used a bit of sarcasm like... No of course not I mean good conversation, coffee, comfy seats with a hot guy that is a terrible idea.

You also have to sexual frame her. Make her imagine having sex with you OR make her imagine being in love with you.

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Why is the Rhum gone?!

Have to agree with Rhum, this is a dead set unless (like Rhum said), you open up to her friends' circle. That would really make her thing that to have a coffee with you is an absolute right.

If you really don't want to pursue this, still open her group of friends, it will spark some deep seated need in her. If all else fails, you might even get closer to one of the others in the group.

I'm not bothered about putting all the effort in with a large social network for the sake of one girl who probably has limited potential as an LTR anyway... Probably best to keep options open and continue to sarge in preparation for university! An ex-girlfriend has decided she wants me back too! Decisions, decisions...

Cheers for the feedback, though guys. Rhum, I think I made a lot of mistakes from the very start, and by the time I found PUA I had made a lot of mistakes already. Not so many as to make it impossible, but probably very difficult. Appreciate the pointer on the shit test etc. I realised that it wasn't the best thing to say, but couldn't think of much else. Ah well, live and learn!