Let me be straight: I'm relatively new here. I'm interested in the psychology that centers PU and the application to my own life, but in no way am I qualified to make assumptions in any way—but I need to ask.

From my impression on most threads here, (I've stalked through a good amount by now, just damn interesting) the mentality that seems to be necessitated in PU is the need for many interactions. You figure out what works. What doesn't. Learn, adapt and succeed depending on the methods you've developed and channel it into success.

What undertones this mentality however, is that there is little incentive to invest in the long-term, or frankly, to bother investing that long if it doesn't lead to affection/love/kissing/sex. I've seen many threads about this: in particular, many would be about the community telling a post that, if it doesn't lead to the four things I've listed above—drop the relationship. You short-sell. You sell your stocks before they drop.

Now, a common argument for this may be that this is merited when a guy wants the affection, the love, the sex, and when they don't achieve it, it's too painful to stick with the relationship and it's better to end it altogether. I can accept that. I can accept that we all have these desires. This is an argument made by people who could very well have thousands of experiences - which is frankly inspiring - and something I don't take lightly.

However, the problem is when...

A. You look like an asshole.
B. It requires a one-tracked, sex-driven mind.
C. It de-incentivizes you to invest in the long-term.
D. You realize you need to stop giving a fuck about cutting people off, or pushing past a lot of past feelings.
E. You will condition yourself to aim for extrinsic values in people, such as their looks over other aspects.
F. You may question yourself: that you are a no-good "player" who simply uses women for personal needs.

How does a PUA and the community address these issues?

This is a community and skill that runs on the basis of "pick-up" of course, but I hope it's not out-of-mind for me to question your philosophies. These points are probably just plain wrong in your eyes. It may be that I just don't have the mentality it takes to pick-up. It may be that I'm just totally overthinking this and should just YOLO; but nonetheless, right now good responses to this would be more valuable than any pick-up line.

I always wonder when someone here writes stuff like this about the forum, what bloody threads are they talking about? Please, link ONE thread where the popular opinion agrees with ANYTHING that you listed. I see threads where guys are saying it's ok to lend your gf money, threads saying you should workout and build your career before girls to guys living in their parents houses, threads telling guys to sort out their mental issues before thinking abt game, threads saying that looks in a chick are second, third or fifteenth to other aspects of herself. What threads have you been seeing where ANY of what you say is found??!

Look. My point isn't on the actual community itself, because I agree with you. There IS a lot of good things from what you've listed, especially for the most part the "inner-game" threads in general. This is besides my point... But there are negative threads, too.

general-questions/you-consider-pua-stats-vt193502.html
- Dude posts his "stats" over the amount of girls he's done it with to validate himself as a PUA. If a girl you were dating knew about these "stats" would they be fond of you? No. You wanted one example? Point A.

general-questions/friendzone-constant-n ... 93498.html
- This is the original post I sort of base this on. He's trying to escape the friend-zone. Overall I think the message is good, because his feelings aren't being reciprocated in this sort of relationship, he should move on. Simple. However it looked to be much easier to cut the relationship entirely than "fix" it as they said.

"You really have nothing to loose. One thing that's important for you internally is to 'Stop giving a f$ck)." - Point D.

"Tell her you're not interested in being friends with her, that you have romantic feelings for her, always have and have never seen her as a friend. You're willing to hang out, have fun and see where it goes without any pressure but you're not going to wait around forever as her pal." - The mindset PU has in general.

As for "looks" we implement our own scale. 1-10. A girl's appearance, and we apply this initially. It's pointless to say that it doesn't matter, because it does to us, and pickup in a couple ways prizes girls with an 8, 9 or 10. You don't see a thread about "Trying to pick up a 5, please help".

My point isn't that the threads are corrupted. They. Are. Not. There are good things as you said, so don't misconstrue my words. My question is our take on PU as a whole.

Let me make this easy: What is the philosophy that I, and everyone else, should have going into PU? Is it about sexing up every girl I see, or developing a strong, solid relationship, a combination of both or something else?

Please don't get the wrong idea. But there is a stigma outside of PU and I wanted to have them addressed.

The first link you gave is the worst kind of example. Guy posts about his stats and is quickly dismissed for thinking about things that way, as well as given advice by multiple posters to move out of his parents house. As I said, you can't show me a thread where the majority or even alot of people are agreeing to any of that stuff

The second link, the advice is for the guy to move on. He was friendzoned by a chick he hasn't even met.

What I think the philosophy should be, would be go for what you want. If you want a relationship, go for that. If you want sex go for that. Can't write more due to being tired

You learn how to become an attractive man, and you do what you want to do with it.

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Okay. Well sorry guys, I know what you mean... I came off strong. Just food for thought, I guess. Also neo, it's true that the *majority* don't, but you yourself can at least be a little irritated when a thread like that comes up once in a while. And I thank you for the advice. I'll stop resurrecting this thing personally, but do what you gotta do.

And dtrak, sounds good enough for me.