A lot of the threads on this forum include the stereotypical advice.

In this thread, I wanted to share the marriage proposal of one of our clients that got coverage on the local news as well as all the way in the UK.

Here is link to our write-up on how he won the girl being a nice guy. It also includes a video of the proposal and article as well as .

mod edit

His approach won't work for everybody and I'm sure many of you will hate on his proposal technique.

However, that's the point of this thread. One strategy one size does not work for all people and the BEST strategy is one that fits your specific personality/type.

I never got the pleasure of working with Alan, but the coach who worked with him in Houston had to drastically change our normal advice to suit the type of guy he was.

Hopefully some of you can relate to him and gain inspiration from his willpower and results.

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I didn't read most of what the link said (as you already know ), but I watched the video. Good for them- from what I did read, I understood that after many rejections he stayed the same romantic guy during the duration of dating Jennifer.

Good for them. She seems like a very down to earth and sincere girl, so I was a bit more happy for her than him. I didn't like how pompous he made the proposal- I think it should be more of a personal thing, but hey, we're all different.

On the topic, I think being a sweet romantic type isn't a bad thing. If you can pull it off with an intriguing edge to you, and where you know your limits and own personal space, it's not a bad thing.

Thanks for sharing.

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You're right, but the key point made in our article is that most "nice guys" aren't really nice.

Many are just doing nice things with an ulterior motive.

Being super nice can also come across as trying too hard, which is also unattractive.

If you are GENUINELY a nice guy, then you don't have to become a bad boy to get the girl. In fact, the girls that a 'bad boy' approach works on are girls you probably don't want to marry anyway.

Nice guys just have to make some minor modifications and have the patience/willpower to wait for the right girl. This is what Alan did and he truly found the perfect mate.

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You are correct in most of your arguments. The problem is this forum is not about how to wait for the one and stay nice, more like, how to fuck as many women as possible. I don't really like either approaches, but I have to appreciate that the majority of forum members are here to learn that.

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What? The nice guy here totally finished last!

Look at all that approval seeking he's doing with a woman who supposedly already loves him. It screams neediness. I can guarantee that won't be a fun/lasting marriage, but it'll be an expensive one!

Hey dude,

I'm an extremely nice guy within my "boundaries".. But thats the key - standards and boundaries. The nice guys that finish last are either the guys without boundaries or the guys with them that don't defend them when someone crosses them.

Theres nothing wrong with being nice; you'll have more friends and thus get laid a lot more. But everyone around me knows I have a side that isn't so nice, if you test my boundaries.

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LOL...I wish you could put your money where you mouth is. I'd totally take you up on a bet.

It may surprise you to note that she actually makes more money than him.

He bought her a very modest ring...and despite her living in the superficial world of modeling...she didn't care one bit about the size of the ring.

Their engagement was over the top because Alan was genuinely super excited to finally have found the woman of his dreams after 44 years.

The scene was actually his birthday party. He has tons of great friends and wanted to share the moment with them. He planned this for months to make it memorable and special.

Yes...Alan is corny and an easy target for all the "too cool for school" guys, but we all act giddy sometimes when we are super excited about something.

Even though this wouldn't be my personal taste for a proposal, the underlying feelings and excitement is admirable no matter what your taste.

Not many people have the courage to go on stage like that, sing, and express their emotions in front of a crowd. Despite him knowing the proposal would be an easy target for haters, he did it anyway.

Ironically, it's the ultimate show of confidence and self-esteem

I would take any bet of this lasting longer than a marriage based on some guy acting like a bad boy to get in a woman's pants and the resulting co-dependency it creates between 2 insecure people.

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It's good to see someone who "gets it".

We promote certain "bad boy" techniques, but only in response to screwing things up in the first place (i.e. being too nice and getting put in the friend zone).

If you have standards and boundaries from the start, then you don't need to be a bad boy unless your sole goal is actually to be bad (i.e. screw as many girls as possible and not care about their feelings or a relationship).

_________________
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Fuck the whole "nice guy vs. bad boy" thing... Just be a fucking man. The problem is, most "nice guys" are too afraid to damage their image as a nice guy when some girl gives him shit so they just sit there and take it. I am a damn nice guy on the inside but I am one tough mother fucker on the outside. I am nice to the people that deserve it. I take awesome care of my girlfriend. But that's cause she deserves it. I'll be damned if I'm going to be "nice" to some girl who I don't even know or care about her feelings... especially if she is going to try and treat me. Be a man. Not a boy.... good boy or bad boy. Don't take shit from some "little girl"

Your avatar is appropriate because you seem to wear different hats and can wear makeup to be a chameleon.

If it works for you...great...playing charades can be fun.

However, I suspect over the long haul you will realize that it's easier to have your exterior match your interior because whoever gets to know you well will see through whatever disguise you create.

_________________
Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

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I think you misunderstood what Majikal wanted to say.

Nice guy on the inside and tough motherfucker on the outside can in fact match. They don't contradict each other. Well yeah... I don't like the term "nice guy" because it has become equivalent with "needy guy" in the community, so I just want to make it clear that the "nice guy" me and Majikal are refering to is just being a genuinely good person.

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Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

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This is the typical Miss Universe beauty pageant answer. The logical way humans interact with other humans in human societies is far way different than the one dimensional gorilla society which you are trying to propose.

We play different roles that society throws at us. The genuine self is actually a compendium of different persona that fits accordingly with social norms. Read up on some Role Theory, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_theory

Majikal is a very competitive individual; tough on the outside yet soft in the inside. Career-wise, I won't say he's a nice guy versus the competition but with his girlfriend (someone who has earned his respect) I can discern that he can be the sweet fun guy.

Personally, I'm a bad boy when the situation calls for it and a nice guy when the social norm calls for it. I adapt. Otherwise, I won't survive in this dog eats dog job market or get the girls I want who go for the bad boys first and nice guys last.

Girls are more attracted during the times that I make them cry than those times I make them laugh. Sex is way much better when I dominate than when I supplicate. Girls feel safer and better with me when I win over and beat the competition than the times when I lost and got beaten.

Of course, you can't be a bad boy all the time. Otherwise, you can't do team work with anyone.

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Majikal should be flattered that you came to his defense.

I'm also flattered that you read so much into my comment that you wanted to bring up Role Theory.

In the future, might I suggest you get your information from more credible sources than Wikipedia though.

I thought my comment was pretty simple, straight forward, and easy to understand.

Like I said...if constantly switching from 'bad boy' to 'nice guy' works for you...more power to you.

It won't work for very long though...Once someone gets to know you REALLY well, they will KNOW if you are truly are a good or bad person. No facade you create will matter and Role Theory has NOTHING to do with this.

One other note...If you are pursuing girls that are easily manipulated by your facades, then I would suggest you make them just your booty calls and not your GFs because some other guy will be able to manipulate them the exact same way.

_________________
Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

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Here are the independent reliable sources that Wikipedia article was based from:

• Mead, George H. (1934). Mind, Self, and Society. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
  Parsons, Talcott (1951). The Social System.
  Robert K. Merton, Social Theory and Social Structure, 1949
  Ralf Dahrendorf, Homo sociologicus, 1958 (in German, many editions)
  Rose Laub Coser, “The Complexity of Roles as a Seedbed of Individual Autonomy”, in: The Idea of Social Structure: Papers in Honor of Robert K. Merton, 1975
  Ralph Linton, "The Study of Man", Chapter 8, "Status and Role", 1936

Merton is an institution in sociology. Besides, it takes a lot of skill and intelligence to defend a new article in routine Articles for Deletion debates in Wikipedia. The quality assurance procedures for new articles is tight as a donkey's ass.
It isn't a facade. It's a masculine gender role that guys play in a society which is currently heavily influenced by feminism which basically defines the 'nice guy' persona.

A teacher has a different persona when she goes home and cares for the kids. She takes on a different role when she spends private time with the husband. She takes on a different personality when she's out with her college friends. She becomes a different person when she's around her parents or in laws. That's reality.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Women already have a pussy... They don't need or want a "nice guy" who acts like a pussy as well. ONE guy you post about can wife down a girl by being a "nice guy".. Whoopity fucking do....

You know who else did that? Me. 8 years ago. Because I was a "nice guy" to a girl... bent over backwards for her, jumped through her hoops, acted as her little monkey... I married her because she was the only girl my "nice guy" mentality worked on. I was happy someone even liked me. Then, she walked the fuck all over me... Which is what I guarantee will happen to this characters marriage that you wrote about. So, I'm going to call bullshit on your article about how "Nice Guys Don't Always Finish Last" because let me get my hands on this girl and she will be blowing me in this dudes bedroom while he is being "nice" taking her out to steak dinners and buying her Louis Vuitton purses. Women don't want a "nice guy." They want to be swept off their feet buy a fucking SOLDIER. They want prince charming who doesn't put up with their shit.

I don't agree AT ALL with your article because of the fact, time and time again... The nice guy never wins. It's always the assertive, aggressive, bad boy who puts his ego aside to get what he wants that beats his fucking ass in life. #Winning