I am a new to 'the community' as I have heard it described. However I have had today off and spent half the day watching PUA videos on youtube (with gambler, Adam Lyons ect) and reading various threads on here after being made aware of the forums.

I am 17 and would consider myself to be quite a confident guy in general, however with girls I have no game and zero ability to esculate so I have decided to do something about it.

I used to have confidence issues due to being a fatty however 18months ago I began working out and now I am bigger than most people my age and get complimented about my muscular size my guys+girls alike at parties. Despite my change in physique I still lack confidence with girls however I am willing to make drastic changes as I did to my body.

I'm an average looking guy. About 6ft and have quite an confident way about me usually however when I am at parties (1year until I can go to clubs as in the UK) my way is not the same. I have considered putting this down to drink however thats just an excuse I need to improve my game.

I've only kissed 3girls and all of them have been the ones to make a move on me. I want this to change as I cannot relly on girls coming onto me if I want to get the women I want. I am sick of girls hooking up with other guys (who I consider myself to be better than) despite showing interest in me. This happened this weekend in a party and I am irritated about it;

Some girl from college who I had been hitting on over the last week approached me in at this party to dance, and we did before I left. I then came to her and danced with her later before being distracted by something. 10minutes later she comes out to me on a balcony, turns me around and starts grinding the f*ck out of me and letting me dry f*ck her.This went on for about 3minutes before her friend came and took the girl from me saying she wanted to dance with her and dragged her into the middle of the dance-floor where it was crowded as f*ck. (i'm sure she just dissaproved of me being with her friend) Next time I see the girl she is with another guy

Positive note is that the girl came upto me in college and told me I was fun to be with when drunk and winked, so I believe she is attracted to me and I have a chance to sleep with her.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated i am very willing to learn (currently reading interesting/important threads)

inb4 this should be in the 'introduce yourself' section. That has no traffic so zero replies.
This thread isn't just about that girl, just abit of backstory so you can assess my behaviour.

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Becoming the best version of myself.

Hi there. Agreed on the introduction section... Very rarely gets any response but it's because that's for introduction only. Questions like this should be posted here, it's in the good place...

About your problem. It seems to me that you're afraid to make your move unless you get a full-on green light. Which is just not enough. You need to work on taking risks more often with girls. You have to learn how to calibrate properly, when enough is enough, and when you need to push further. This is something that noone can really tell you, you must experience it first hand.

Next time you assume it's on with a girl, don't wait for a blunt move from her like this crazy girl grinding on you on the balcony. Be touchy with girls. Girls like to be touched by a MAN. Practise and experiment. As long as you don't grab her ass or boobs directly from the start the worst that can happen is they tell you to stop touching them... There're a decent amount of guides here on the forums about physical escalation, I suggest you go through a few of them and try them out. And try them out is the key here because only reading will not get you anywhere... You really can not improve unless you fail a few times. But this isn't only true for pick-up it's a lesson for life in general.

So in short, my suggestion is to work on your escalation and see how the girls respond to that. I tell you that, when I first started practising escalation a few years ago, I was a bit skeptical and thought I would come off as creepy but in reality when I finally grabbed my balls and started getting into it I was shocked with the fact that I could get away with so much touching I wouldn't have imagined back then. Good Luck!

Peace.

In$tinct

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"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

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Thanks, great response instinct.

You are spot on with the green lights bit. I can't keep waiting for girls to pull the blunt moves on me. I will learn more about escalation and begin practicing to improve.

About this balcony girl. Do you think she would be a good target to practice on? I am not going to see her for a month due to college holidays unless somebody throws a party. Not sure if she is going to have me down as a p*ssy for not escalating with her after the blunt move, however if she was willing to do that she must be attracted to me

the days before the party I had been pulling c/f stuff without being aware of pua and also touching her ass without making a big thing of it, so I may have created the attraction. Hopefully it has not been killed off. She hinted at inviting me to go to the shops with her+ friend-zoned guy on monday however I was doing something so she knew I was too busy. I don't want to be that guy putting her above my interests ect so didn't go

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Becoming the best version of myself.

How long have you known her? If she's from your social circle I wouldn't advise that. Gaming in social circle is fine, practising not so much because if you fuck up too much you can get bad reputation. And if you won't see her for a month you need to look for other women to practise on anyway. Before she gets back you might start getting the hang of escalation if you're dedicated enough and have the time for that.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

I've known her for about 8months. I used to sit next to her in class and be c/f with her for the first month but then moved when she got a boyfriend and some LJBF guy sits with her now

She's not in my social circle but more of an acquaintance. I will remember not to practice on chicks in my circle though, you are right I don't wanna have to deal with any reputation.

Hopefully I can develop some skills during the month or so I won't be seeing her and can be in a stronger position to get her after.


Seeing as this thread explains my issues ect. I would like to put forward another question. How can I deal with a girl I may be in the friend-zone with. She has not friend-zoned me yet however I'm sure I am close to it. This girl is about a foot or more shorter than me and is kinda quiet but very cute. She has never had a bf and is religious, she's not the sort to hook up with people at most parties but I find her attractive.

Problem is looking back on it she gave me IOI's before drawing hearts on my books in class and then smile/glancing at me. But I never acted upon it... Is this a situation I can recover from in terms of sexually escalating with her?

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Becoming the best version of myself.

Ahhh the college game

I started looking into game a lot around the same age as you and Im 22 now so I had a lot of experience with college game and will say its a little bit different then the game that gambler/adam lyons/etc talk about. The best thing to take note of though is the concepts and theories behind what these guys are talking about. The concepts can be used anywhere but some of the things won't apply directly to your situations.

It sounds like you are a confident guy but you are unsure. Technically confidence is the state of being where you are sure of yourself and your decisions. If you look at my post in opening/approach i make note that you shouldn't TRY TO HIT ON GIRLS. Thats not the best way to go about things. Especially in school where there are women everywhere you don't need to worry about getting on the very first chick that shows you any interest. It is important to be selective because girls are....why can't we be selective too? Your not going to automatically like a chick if she shows you interest because she could be a total bitch.... You should just go out to parties/class/student union/etc... thinking I'd like to get new opinions and maybe talk to a new interesting person and if she fits that then you can pursue her. That may make it easier for you to initiate interactions.

As far as your party girl. Definitely practice the game on her. She's showing interest in you already. But if you do start "working" on her so to speak don't automatically think I can't talk to other girls too. Your not in a relationship yet so don't limit yourself at all.

Have you ever noticed with your friends who are girls they usually are always asking you "What do you wanna do?" or "What are we gonna do?" "You decide" or "I don't care I'm down for whatever" These are all comments that a lot of women make. Subliminally they are wanting you to take control of a situation and be confident when you do it. So don't be afraid to try and progress things with a girl but its all in HOW you do it thats the key. You don't have to be the dickbag that smacks her ass in the club or says lets go fuck.... Progression is all a concept. If you can get her to move to a new spot with you or bring you a drink or introduce you to her friends they are all signs. It sounds like you just need to keep your eyes open and try to recognize a situation in which she is showing interest because they are everywhere.

p.s to keep her friend from taking her away like that you gotta be cool with her friends too...if you can show her and her friends that your an interesting dude and your willing to talk and listen to them they will like you too its usually because they think your "hitting" on their friend which brings me back to what I send earlier just show interest in getting to know who they are and then if you find them interesting enough ONLY THEN YOU CAN MOVE ON TO PURSUING HER!!!

-Kc Masterpiece

kcmasterpiece is right on spot with many things.

If she's out of your social circle that's definitely good practise especially since she seems to be into you a lot.

Also some advice for the future:

If you have the opportunity for an easy lay, respect it. Those are great for gaining good reputation. Make that woman have a series of orgasms and she will tell ALL of her good friends that you're a monster in bed.

Friendzone is a bitch. You're saying that she's never had a boyfriend before. That can mean several things(most community people will disagree with what I am going to say but it's based 100% on experience with younger college girls):

-She's doing friends with benefits. One of my friends' current girlfriend is like this. He's her first boyfriend ever, she's 22 and she only had friends with benefits before. Girls like these can be tricky, but are usually easy lay. Best policy is to be brutally sexual. Yet I see you assume this is not true in this case, but remember that sometimes the most quiet girls are the biggest sluts.

-She's very shy, and guys get fed up with her not reacting to anything. A girl friend of mine is like this. You can never win with them. They're bound to die alone unless they change their attitude. They're almost always way too picky and when a guy finally decides to make a move on them they just shy away.

-She's been abused and is afraid of relationships. Though my current girlfriend has had one boyfriend before me, she definitely fits into this cathegory. Be prepared to cope with lots of shit, trust issues, maximum insecurity, cognitive distortion, and everything you can imagine if you want to do anything with girls like this. I knew what I got into because I was also friendzoned from the start and knew a lot about her, but it is totally worth it because I've never met a girl who's as caring and loving as her. Don't want to spoil this thread, if you're interested, let me know and I'll PM you about how I got out.

-She's not desired by other males for some reason. This is best case scenario if the girl is really your type. (My current girlfriend is also almost borderline in this cathegory) You basically can't fuck up because you're the only one and she has no other choices. But be prepared that a girl like this can be clingy and may also have trust issues and a low self-esteem.

-She's the friendzone master. This type of girl thinks she's better than everyone and will not get into a relationship until the age of 40 when she realizes that she's going to die alone with her genes going extinct.

-She's lesbian. Obvious...

-Other reason. It's odd that I call this cathegory the other, but in reality this is most girls who didn't have a boyfriend. Life somehow just sucked for them for whatever reason. Your best bet is to get to know them, find out what's wrong with them, and decide. Present sexuality but don't be pushy before you make your choice this way you will avoid the friendzone but the girl won't have anything in mind she shouldn't until you decide.


Now I only have two things left to say and the second one is far more important...

1) If you want to do something with the shy girl, find out which cathegory she fits, and act accordingly.

2) You always need to game multiple women. This is the single best way to avoid the friendzone because you'll never be needy when you know you have many options.

Good Luck! Any more questions, I'm more than willing to answer. You remind me of my past self a lot.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

Yh reading up about PUA over the last couple of days it is evident that women want to be dominated by men, its biological. You are spot on with the taking the lead stuff, I definitely need to make an active effort to do this.

I will be looking out for IOI's all the time now and also vigilant that college game is slightly different to the common stuff.

I was speaking to a PUA in college at the moment on the chat feature and he said that neging and then ignoring for a couple of weeks is a great tactic in college-game. Can you confirm this? think it is a good idea?

theres a certain girl who I believe knows I am attracted to her which has maybe put her off (she came up and made out with me before insigating it). I think she would be a great target to try this on as she has slut tendencies + I don't care about her
Will begin dropping game as much as possible on multiple targets. My first step into becoming a more experienced and therefore successful PUA.

The girl in question is not lesbian, damaged or unattractive to others. I think she happens to be the master of the friend-zone type which is a shame however I believe I can break this as me and her have a connection which I haven't shared with many people in my life. No one-itis (had that once and quickly learnt it was stupid so will never be in that situation again), but I enjoy talking to her alot and she does too.

I'm in UK college so there are two years. She is perhaps the most hit-on girl by the year above which has just left so she is in demand however she doesn't put out and kisses few guys. I believe its to do with her religious family - father is a pastor-of-sorts I don't ask about that stuff though

I'm quite a big guy whereas she is a subtle tiny dancer so she should be easy to dominate once I become more confident with women and get past this stage of needing 'full green lights' as you eluded to before.

Please share the story about your girlfriend in this thread if you want, this thread is of great quality imo and hopefully it continues

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Becoming the best version of myself.

If she has a really religious family, that might also be the problem(fits in the "other" cathegory). Religious girls are not all the same however. There are lots of levels ranging from "No sex before marriage"(believe it or not, in my country there are girls who have/are keeping themself to this) to "I will confess it anyway". They can give you a hard time and there are many of them who seek partners who share their believes, but this is not a criteria for all of them.

The key to getting a religious girl is to bring out the "bad girl" in her and don't be judgemental. In fact you should reward her majorly every time she lets herself to be a bit naughty. This conditions her in a way that she can be her true self with you and that you're not only not judging her for this, but appreciate it. If you manage to get this right, you will almost always succeed with a religious girl, but be prepared that her family might not welcome you and this may raise some not too pleasant issues later on. Of course for this you will have to have 100% control of the things so being a good leader is of the greatest importance.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

Okay I will keep this in mind

I believe if I get her than the family won't be too much of an issue as it seems that they would trust her, she's allowed to go out and party. I'm sure that if she were to be with someone they would believe in her decision. Even if I had to deal with a family situation I wouldn't be too worried I can deal with that. I get on well with most people and they'll be able to see I am a good guy.

To get the ball rolling I just really need to kiss close her. But due to my weaknesses this is the hardest thing. As I said I've only been kissed by girls, never instigated.

I'm reading up about the subject now, any advice in that area will be greatly appreciated

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Becoming the best version of myself.

As you wished, about my girlfriend:

I met her when I met my ex. I first hit it off with my ex better and that relationship lasted for 10 months. My best buddy meanwhile was messing around with my current girlfriend. Nothing serious, just petting once in a while. I became friends with my current girlfriend about 2 years ago(have known her for 3 years). After my other relationship ended we got a bit closer. Best buddy was casually teasing us about how we must have been fucking. Little did he know this only helped me...

Best friend left the university so he got completely out of the picture, but he visited once in a while and then I got this ingenius idea... I told this girl that we should totally screw said friend over on the 1st of April pretending that in fact he was right and we were banging. This set a frame. I let myself do sexual things more with her and it was casual and always ended up in laughs about how good of a practise this is for our prank.

Her dance partner also left and I offered her I would replace him since I wanted to learn to dance too.(second ingenius idea) Dancing is great. Lots of sexuality and touching in it.

By this time she already knew I'm PUA. My roommate is wbAFC. I told him I would help him and here came my third ingenius idea that I would ask her to help me with the teaching. Of course my roommate is also part of this social circle... Now there was literally no limits. I could get away with basically anything under the terms of "teaching".

And then came luck, when we had a long weekend and everyone else besides us left. Her birthday also happened to be on this weekend so I casually told her she should come over and we would celebrate it. Well the celebration ended up in a makeout and a "talk", after which we decided that this friendship is working no more, since we no longer think of each other as friends, and we decided to try how we would work out. We've been together ever since.

And this is why I preach against the "freeze out technique" against friendzone ALL THE TIME. It's definitely effective in MOST of the cases but you have to calibrate. Sometimes there are better and smarter ways, like in my case.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

Some things that came up to my mind since I see my other post was not too specific. I will try to give a few examples on how you could get a religious girl to be a bit naughty. It's basic manipulation(yeah I know many people don't like this word, but whatever. My friends tell me all the time I'm manipulative but they don't mind since they know my intentions are always well placed)

You basically need to set up a little trap. Important thing is that she needs to trust you and know you're a good person not just some jerk fooling around... And then you can proceed. I can't tell you exactly what to do, it will always be situational, but I'll give you an example to get how it should be done...

You: Damn it's so hot. If only we were at the beach and get wet a little...

Her: Totally agree...

You: Oh... You like that, well I thought you were more of a conservative type.

Her: Wait... I totally am, it's just you said...

You: No need to excuse yourself for me you're cute enough anyway. I like this kinky side of you.

She will probably go on about how could you think that and all other BS with her face getting the colour of a tomato, but you can just outright ignore that. If you feel like she gets way too upset by this you can tell her it was just a joke and not to take everything you say seriously, the primary goal has been achieved anyway.

Something this innocent for the first time, and then proceed with other things:

You: Would you like to have a cup of coffee?

Her: Yeah.

You: C or D cup?

Her: What??

You: I saw that little smirk on you, already told you not to put your mask on in front of me. Just let go and laugh.

By her reactions you should be able to calibrate what is acceptable and what is yet not. In fact it's not neccessary to get to a point where "Would you mind if I go inside?" will get a positive reaction. The point is that she will learn that you expect her to laugh at your witty sexual remarks and this ultimately signals that you see her as a sexual being. No matter how religious, how prude a woman is, each has a sex drive, and it is a primal instinct she just can't deny. Whether she wants it or not she will find herself more comfortable and loose around you than other guys. And if a woman feels she can be all herself with you, that's like a 90% won case, you can only screw up from there.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

thats a great story. Congrats man

I think this certain girl is not as nice as your gf though so I will have to attempt freeze-out with a neg

have you used the technique before?

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Becoming the best version of myself.

By intention I have used it a few times with little succes and also, I could not really count the amount of girls I met and knew it would be LJBF from the start so I ignored them. So far neither of them reinitiated contact, or when I accidently meet them behave any differently. Not gonna happen...

You see the freeze-out technique has a theory behind it, and it is correct in many cases when that theory can be applied. I'll explain...

The freeze-out technique works best when the girl is keeping you around as a friend while also being concious about your real intentions. Because then it will spark her curiousity about why you have stopped contacting her. This is however only a very slight advantage because curiousity is a strong women drive and you can rely on it a lot, but in many cases it's just completely futile.

If she thinks you too only think about her as a friend the effect of the freeze-out will become very unpredictable.

She might get upset about why you two don't speak anymore but it will not change your "friend" status unless after the freeze-out you present a completely different agenda(sexual... obviously). You see in this case the freeze-out was not at all for HER to change her mind but for YOU to change for a more attractive person and this effect will be greater because she was not communicating to you thus all the small changes you went through will be presented to her in one piece. She had no time to get used to the "new" you and so she will need to evaluate your status again.... and of course might stick with friends.

She might also just don't give a crap about it, in which case you'd better be the real deal when meeting her next time or else nothing will work.

She might care a bit, but move on with losing a friend and this is worst case scenario. It's fucking hard to recover from here because when you contact her again she will do everything to restore the friendship. From here it is a gamble again but you're playing against the bank with cards revealed. You go all out, making clear you don't want friendship, you have enough friends, you want romance and your chances will depend on quadrillion of things including the alignment of the stars.

Freezing a girl out is always a double edged sword. It's never going to be sure whether it will work or not, but so far theory and experience shows that it's your best chance against the friend-zone except for really sneaky approaches like what I did lol. And those can't be applied everytime either. But this just ultimately comes down to a basic pick-up principle which can not be broken in any way: You can not get every girl.

And this is why freeze-out is still probably the best because meanwhile you're doing your own business and get other opportunities, so you avoid one-itis and if it fails, well... there are other girls on sight, so who really cares.

I forgot to mention with my girlfriend I had an edge. I knew that before I was friendzoned she was attracted to me. That's why I knew that what I was doing will eventually work because ultimately what I did was restoring attraction via sexuality. Getting a girl attracted when she initially wasn't and she dumped you in the friendzone is like banging your head into a wall. The wall may break down, but your head is more likely.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

I think the theory behind negging and ignoring girls in college is a good one considering how college age women act. But i personally don't neg. It's just not my game ya know. Everyone is different and you have to find what works for you. I have my own personal tactic thats similar to negging that i guess you could call "Playful Banter." After a while and getting more experience with women you'll realize the things you can and can't say to women because they may get offended. I think girls in college are quicker to be offended maybe they don't have quite as strong of mental stability as a grown woman and they tend to search for acceptance. But thats not to say all college girls are like that. After you practice some you may start to see what I call "playful banter" its more of a small joke or jab at a girl that could be taken negatively if said incorrectly. And body language/tone of voice is important here. If you are relaxed and playful a small joke can go a long way. To me "neg" sounds like its bad so thats why I refer to it as "Playful Banter"!!!