One thing I often do is write commentary on The Bachelor and The Bachelorette episodes on our facebook fan page (http://www.facebook.com/optimacy)

These shows catch a lot of grief, but I think they can be very helpful if you watch them to learn what to do and NOT to do.

I've found that it's sometimes more helpful to comment on things shown in the TV show than answer a client's specific question directly.

In particular, it's helpful to show that even very attractive people have have serious flaws in relating to the opposite sex.

When you watch someone fail who has great looks, it makes it easier for YOU to not use the common excuse "I'm not good looking" as the cause for all your problems.

One of our other coaches with more technical savvy actually did video commentary of the Bachelor introductions. You can check out his video at (http://optimacy.org/video-1-the-bachelo ... 1-analysis.

If anyone else watched the show and wants to share their tips or questions, I'd be interested in your thoughts. If you make a good suggestion, I may steal it to share on our Facebook fan page, but I will give you credit

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Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

http://optimacy.org

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If the eyes on shameless self-promotion are closed, I hope nobody on this board actually uses those two shows to study seduction or self-improvement.

Just like I hope nobody watches WWE in order to learn how to fight.

_________________
A morning of awkwardness is far better than a night of loneliness.

18 Body Language Mistakes I Bet You're Making

Seriously dude, this stuff is TV. It is a great example of what not to do but they also only show random snippets and the shows are heavily edited and not scripted, but basically scripted (multiple takes etc.)

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

LOL...Good thing we have a "know-it-all" on this forum to tell people where they can't learn anything.

Strange that you took the time to tell people they CAN'T learn anything, yet you ironically didn't share where you have learned your "master seduction" skills.

Anybody who doesn't watch these shows is missing a great opportunity to see social dynamics in relationships at play.

Sure...some of the stuff is scripted and edited...but ANY book you read or ANY online tutorial does the EXACT same thing.

I suppose you watch all those pseudo PUA videos with undercover cameras and think those are unedited, non-scripted, or cherry-picked.

Only a conceited, narcissistic, buffoon is oblivious to opportunities to learn, and it's even worse when they tell others to do the same.

Please feel free to ignore any forum post made by me, Pickwick. I will happily return the favor...although I'm pretty sure you won't be able to help yourself and continue to chime in with your "wisdom".

_________________
Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

http://optimacy.org

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I agree you can learn from everything, but the problem with learning from this is that you cannot know what is scripted what is not etc. It isn't really social dynamics that occur in real life, at least there is no way to know. So it's pretty dangerous to try to learn anything from this.

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Consequently and yet ironically you're telling people where they CAN learn, which is exactly the same thing.
It's not my job to tell people where they can learn. I can clearly see that it is yours though. Now I understand you're trying to make a living, and giving advice to insecure men is something that seems to be easy enough, but at least give people GOOD advice if you're trying to make it your job.
Completely scripted social dynamics that don't occur in real life. You're not going to get a bunch of great looking, somehow single, and for whatever reason very interested women fighting for one man. And somehow in six weeks they fall in love. And did I mention the whole show is scripted?
There are books and other shows that at least TRY to show real social dynamics and don't focus on gluing hopeless women to the television set. About 80% of the whole dialogue is very cut and dry and overscripted to unbelievable simplicity. It's almost likely watching Cinderella thinking that it's the prototype of what real social dynamics are, until you get slapped in the face with reality.
No I don't watch any PUA videos, but I guess condescending assumptions are all you have left at this point.
Nobody is oblivious to opportunities to learn- talk about red herrings coming out of your ass. If you're telling people where to learn, don't implicate your job into it, and actually give them a resource that will be useful. I understand, though, that your boss probably decided to cut into the Bachelor since it's a popular TV show right now and many people will probably be able to find your organization interesting, since it seems to associate with a popular event. Again, I don't give a shit if you're trying to advertise your business, but don't overreact when you're being called out on it.
Of course when there are only good looking men or women in the picture, someone with great looks will fail. Seems very representative of real life, huh.

_________________
A morning of awkwardness is far better than a night of loneliness.

18 Body Language Mistakes I Bet You're Making

LOL...I knew you couldn't help yourself and would pop back up on this thread Pickwick.

Your responses are sheer folly...You try so hard to sound like some kind of authority.

You clearly didn't even look at the stuff I referenced. You just jumped into the thread immediately and wanted to play Mr. Know-it-all.

Maybe you're threatened by others giving advice...or maybe you just like to see your name in lots of threads pretending to be an authority.

I would have 100% respected your post if you said..."Hey Optimacy...some things in these shows aren't translatable to the real world. For example, the advice your guy gave about XYZ Bachelor might not work in a non-TV game-show type setting. Here's how I would introduce myself IRL to an eligible girl who has a lot of guys vying for her attention..."

Instead, you provided no value and even said "it's not my job to tell people where to learn"

Thanks for enlightening us with your wisdom and revealing yourself to be exactly what I predicted.

You sure have written a ton of stuff on this thread to say essentially nothing.

BTW, since you are also claiming to be the self-promotion police, you should note that everything I referenced was 100% free...just like if I wrote it from scratch here on the forum.

Unlike you, I have tons of material that ISN'T on this forum. I'm not going to re-write everything on our FB fan page and YT channel, when a link is much easier. Go ahead...look at my prior posts and count how many times I linked something...then wipe the egg off your face.

BTW, I've met participants from the Bachelor/Bachelorette, and they've told me a lot of it is "created". However, there are certain body language ques and other things that they can't script or control 100%, so once again, you are wrong.

Nevertheless...it doesn't really matter if the show is scripted...even parodies of the show -- like Burning Love http://screen.yahoo.com/burning-love/ -- can teach you certain funny and witty things to help guys/girls struggling with their personality.

Our motto is that you can learn from almost ANYTHING, but only if you aren't already a narcissistic, know-it-all.

Anyway...I know I'm giving you too much attention, but I can tell that's what you want and need...so you're welcome.

_________________
Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

http://optimacy.org

To follow on G+ http://plus.google.com/1010399509168205 ... erid=gplp0

To follow on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/optimacy

For someone who criticizes other people for not "contributing anything useful", you sure didn't give much with that post except for personal attacks.

I guess I shouldn't have expected much more. After all, someone who calls another a "know-it-all" assumes that they know it all better.
Yeah, it doesn't require much effort. Just like you keep replying.
Not at all? Just because you have your own perceptions doesn't mean they're true. Thanks for considering me an authority, I guess.
Yeah, once again I am not going to waste my time. If you summarize your claims as "You can learn seduction from the Bachelorette" you're full of shit. Main reason being, as you have yourself repeatedly admitted, it doesn't translate to real life. To poke at your fallacious logic, you said "I suppose you watch all those pseudo PUA videos with undercover cameras and think those are unedited, non-scripted, or cherry-picked", and right before that you admitted that Bachelor and Bachelorette are scripted. So why criticize one and not the other?
My initial comment clearly said that people shouldn't follow scripted, overplayed shows like the Bachelor. You started throwing ad hominems up the ass just because somebody didn't agree with your JOB's viewpoint. If you would have respected me just for using your lexicon, I don't want your respect. Not saying I cared much for it in the first place.
I referred to the fact that you get paid for saying essentially common sense things to insecure men. I don't. Therefore, it's not my profession to tell people where to learn. It's yours. Once again, all I said is I don't agree with what your organization is proposing. Taking that personally doesn't say much about you.
Counts for both of us, especially since you turned it into a more of a personal thread.
Then don't post links to your work site, if you're not trying to advertise. If you were to reread your initial post, those links gave 0 content to your actual question.
Yes, I don't have tons of written out material, because once again, I don't take money for giving men common sense advice. I'm not even going to bother counting anything. I can tell your ego was offended, but I couldn't care less about your self-promotion. Then again, if I see it, it doesn't take me much effort to point it out. Especially if it's provided with absurd comments like "I think they can be very helpful if you watch them to learn what to do and NOT to do." Considering, you know, that everything they do and don't do is scripted and not what they'd naturally do.
??? How am I wrong? You just supported everything I said by saying that it's scripted. Even gave personal anecdotal evidence. The fact that the average person can't control body language isn't news to anybody. The fact that actors, especially those that are told what emotions to express, where to sit, and what to do, can control most of their body language, is also not news to anybody. Even if you think all actors' body language in all movies is natural, fine. Even then, there are better things to learn about seduction than watching body language of people in a scripted show. Since you're going to ask me how, observing NATURAL behavior would do a better trick. Even then, personal experience would still top it all.
Actually it matters a lot. Why not watch Cinderella and Aladdin while you're at it, since it teaches people so well about what actually happens IRL. Sure, you can find lessons in anything, just like another poster not too long talked about how Plato is the essential person to study for seduction.
I'll admit, that's a good motto to get a bunch of money out of people. Should have made it "You can learn from almost ANYTHING, but only if you aren't already a narcissistic, know-it-all, and are willing to follow what we say for ten years, since with our methods, that's when you will learn anything at all."

_________________
A morning of awkwardness is far better than a night of loneliness.

18 Body Language Mistakes I Bet You're Making

LOL...Pickwick...You keep coming back to my thread.

The attention is flattering, but almost creepy.

Let me help you out and sum up your messages in a few lines:

"You can't learn anything from a TV show unless it is a documentary. Anybody who thinks they can is an idiot and not smart like me. And I'm not going to share where I got so smart either."

You finally admitted to not even reading the material that you are spending so much time to criticize. That equals ZERO credibility, which is EXACTLY what I predicted.

I'm used to creepy guys posting things on my social networking sites and wanting to get attention. It's been fun watching you try so hard. I just hope you're not too hurt when I don't respond anymore.

_________________
Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

http://optimacy.org

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To follow on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/optimacy

????? Where did I say any of this? Are you sure you're capable of comprehension?

I didn't even mention documentaries. I agreed with you that it's possible to learn from anything. Is learning from a scripted TV show the most efficient way? No.
We have the exact same amount of credibility here, really. The thing you're leaving out is that you're biased since your colleague wrote the material. That is all. The content of what he's talking about? I've seen the TV shows that we are talking about, and I am aware of how they're made and written. That's why, once again, I said that learning from the Bachelor is not useful. The reason being, that we agreed on, is that it's scripted.
Then stop responding. Instead of giving actual arguments as to why you SHOULD learn from the Bachelor, all you've done is thrown personal attacks at me. One day you'll understand that not everyone agrees with your opinion. Hopefully you won't start crying like a little girl about it then.

_________________
A morning of awkwardness is far better than a night of loneliness.

18 Body Language Mistakes I Bet You're Making

Every time you respond it raises my thread back to the top, so thanks for playing along.

Hopefully you don't get played IRL the same way by women.

It's tiring to keep responding to you saying nothing, but I'll keep playing along if you contribute ONE piece of advice or actual criticism based on what I posted.

You said you want arguments as to "why you should learn from the Bachelor"...so, once again, I will give you the links that you ignored to begin with.

Here is a direct link to the first video of seven my boss did on the Bachelorette - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeETo1UvxHI

This video is STRICTLY based on the initial introductions where the amount of scripting and editing is very limited, if any. I guarantee they didn't script the body language and nervousness in these intros.

Instead of wasting time on my thread in this forum, take that same time to watch these clips. THEN you can tell us how stupid we are and how worthless the advice is for guys who need help meeting women.

If you have better suggestions, better videos, or legitimate criticism to share...then you are more than welcome to share them here. I would 100% respect that.

If not, then I guess you're welcome to keep embarrassing yourself by raising my thread to the top and playing Mr. Know-it-All with zero credibility.

_________________
Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

http://optimacy.org

To follow on G+ http://plus.google.com/1010399509168205 ... erid=gplp0

To follow on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/optimacy

I don't care where your thread is. It can be on the top, it can be on the bottom. Clearly nobody else is responding to it.

I'm also glad you're playing me. Since apparently you making me respond to your thread by saying absurd things is playing me.

I watched the video. The advice of being sincere and showing some shyness isn't bad. The problem that I've been commenting on is that the compliment that the guy in the show gave is unlikely to happen IRL. Your boss goes a great length of saying how good the compliment is, but you're not going to say "As soon as I've found out that it was you, I couldn't have been happier." You're not going to be able to give any personal compliments like that, since you don't know the girl.

Then the problem that follows is that other seasons of The Bachelorette have had the exact same intros. Consequently, all contestants have seen exactly what to do; plus they are in a setting where the woman HAS to accept their introduction- she isn't going to say, "No. I'm in a rush." or "I have to go meet my girlfriends."

I'm going to agree to disagree since both of us can keep going at it.

_________________
A morning of awkwardness is far better than a night of loneliness.

18 Body Language Mistakes I Bet You're Making

Thanks for watching the video and giving your feedback...I hope it wasn't too painful

In this video, you're absolutely right about not be able to use the same line verbatim. However, the macro point he was trying to make had to do with standing out from the other guys.

If you happen to watch the other videos he did (or the entire show), almost every guy used the stereotypical compliment "You're stunning!" or "You look beautiful!", which is far inferior to what this guy did and that's why my boss pointed it out.

In the real world, you could translate this to online dating which has some similarities to the show. For example, many pretty women online get inundated by tons of emails and go on tons of dates with different guys. If you do score a date and just say "You look beautiful!" when you meet her, this isn't going to be something she hasn't already her before.

You could say something charming like "You're even better looking than I imagined. Now I'm nervous (with a nervous yet genuine smile like the guy in the video)."

If that isn't your style, you could do something funny or witty like we suggest in the other videos.

Anyway...at least you gave it a shot.

If you can't see how to translate the concept to the real world or still don't think any lessons can be learned from the show...there's not much else I can do at this point...I gave it my best shot.

You got a deal on the agree to disagree.

_________________
Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

http://optimacy.org

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Is there really a text war about a TV show? I lost interest after the first 4 posts.

Point is, lol @ anyone trying to learn something by watching those shows, AND lol @ anyone trying to learn something from equally scripted youtube channels aimed to getting views.

That's all these shows are about, is getting more views because more views = more money for them.

If you are really interested in getting into peoples' heads, then see how these shows are able to suck millions of viewers into watching their crap.

I've already got your personality type pegged, but guys like you are so much fun. Do you mind humoring me some more?

Your post tries so hard to portray yourself as too sophisticated and smart to be watching a show like the Bachelor. Could you please take a snapshot of the history on your internet browser and show us all the sophisticated, educational, and refined sites YOU visit and things YOU watch?

Maybe you could also take a picture of your bedroom and wardrobe so we can see just how an enlightened individual like yourself lives.

Nevermind...all you really need to do is turn on your computer camera and use it as a mirror.

While looking at your picture...take a good look at your post again....then realize you are bashing people for watching the Bachelor and youtube, etc. while YOU are sitting there looking at a pickup artist forum.

It's kinda like you wearing your Ninja Turtle pajamas out in public, yet you decide to make fun of some girl's hair style. The only person to @lol is yourself.

Let me make this clear for any and all guys who like to pretend to be "cooler than school"....You're not fooling any women...You're just embarrassing yourself.

It's fine if you don't like the Bachelor and have no interest in watching YT videos about it...just move along like a normal person...find something you do like or a thread where you can actually contribute something instead of trying to craft a "I'm too cool and smart" persona.

Personally, I would open your mind and realize you can learn from almost ANYTHING...whether it's this forum, a TV show, or your grandma.

_________________
Sex is like air...It isn't important unless you aren't getting any.

http://optimacy.org

To follow on G+ http://plus.google.com/1010399509168205 ... erid=gplp0

To follow on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/optimacy