Hey all.

I just wanted to contribute something that I have learnt from my own experience with PUA.

Basically, in my opinion, if you don't have a strong sense of self-worth before starting PUA, then chances are that you're not only going to find PUA incredibly difficult, but you may go backwards in your experiences with women.

A lot of PUA material tells you that you need to act a certain way or be something different from what is normal for you. I want people to stop for a second and think about what affect this has on a person with low self esteem. It tells them that unless they act in a certain way, women won't like them. This is nothing but damaging to a person with an already low self-esteem.

What's the point of being able to dress nicely and run off a few pick up lines if you are hollow on in the inside. What happens when you run out of things to say?

David DeAngelo, said it best when he said that pick up lines are for noobs. Inner work is the most important thing.

I can speak with some authority on this topic because this is exactly what i went through. I was one of those people who read pick up guide after pick up guide and was getting no where. Only about a year ago did I address the real problem which was that I had a devastatingly low self-esteem. I got some proper help and now things are EASY. Its fun to be around women and im finally getting regular sex I don't need lines - i can just be myself. I came to learn that the material i was reading was actually making my self-esteem worse by suggesting that I had to act in a certain way to make women like me, when the truth was that all I had to do was to like myself!

Some of you may be familiar with other forums that exist which are based around how PU ruins peoples life. When I read those forums, all I see is people with damaged self esteem who the material was never going to work for anyway.

If anyone is reading this is finding that the material isnt working for them and think that maybe self-esteem is a bit low, then address that first!

Also, I don't want to sound like im bashing PU material - for a person with a healthy self-esteem it is certainly helpful and fun to use.

Just my 2 cents

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"Action is the foundational key to all success" - Pablo Picasso

I know what you mean , if you don't mind me asking pro help did it not just reassure of the things your already know ? So really you done the work and now your happy enough to use it . Inner game shouldn't be called that it should called inner happy ness .

I'm not sure what you mean about confirming beliefs I already had.

It was actually more about changing the Inner Working Models that I was feeling/thinking.

I had to come to believe that I was worthy of being in a relationship and that a woman would want to stay with me. I uncovered that I had some schemas in my unconscious about not being worthy of the attention of others. The result of these schemas was a feeling that I had to perfect in everything I did in order to be worthy of attraction and attention from others. These feelings were apparent in all areas of my life - e.g. my grades at school and uni, the way i dressed, my need for social interactions to be perfect.

This process involved uncovering and changing some of the thought patterns I had. For example, challenging the beliefs that I had about what the result would be if a social interaction didnt go perfectly.

Despite these problems, I was still very popular and functional, however I was always lonely and couldnt connect with people properly.

Since I have fixed these problems (which didnt actually take that long with proper help) I have been able to relax around others, become spontaneous and just take things as they come. I don't worry about the future like i used to and I can really be in the moment.

However, I dont think that all people with self-esteem issues will display this in the same way I did. However, I do think that many men DO have self-esteem issues and they try to use things like pick-up material to cover these insecurities. This is a pointless approach to fixing the problem and will probably make things worse.

I'm just happy that ive addressed the issues and i hope other people going through similar problems can address them too. It makes life soo much easier and more fun.

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"Action is the foundational key to all success" - Pablo Picasso

It may be bad but at least there is something to start with.
Admit it. Most of us had low self esteem and these pick up lines and routines help us to see and feel for ourselves what a confident guy can do.
And then we start to learn the ways, our self esteem increases day by day.
Then we become amateurs and eventually pros.
That's the whole point about these routines and manuals. (:
For those who are starting out, don't fret about all these things, just keep plowing and plowing.

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Never, never, never give up.
Follow me on my blog on how to live life.
http://nealwong.blogspot.sg/

I think alot of people misunderstand the meaning of PUA, I've found the same problems with my mates aswell, they think changing into another person helps them get girls, but that's not the point.

Most people that start with PUA are people with low self-esteem, the way to get rid of your low self-esteem is creating a mentality of rinse & repeat, fall & rise up again. You get put into situations where you have to place feelings, over and over again untill you become rock-solid. Every person has a different view over PUA, my self-esteem wasn't the best either, but i did follow the process through and kept doing my best, i got stronger, some get weaker.

PUA is about developing yourself as a person and improve your social skills, every person has its qualities, PUA is there for you to grow into a better YOU. When you look at self-esteem, it's caused because people hold theirselves back and dont express their inner-game. They're afraid of rejection thus lock theirselves up (mentally). PUA opens another world for you by showing you that that little mind-set of yours, is nothing but misbelieve.

Things like physical escalation, kino and whatever are just things that help you attract women, because body-language is a huge part of attraction and it helps you out. It doesn't mean you have to change your personality for this, it's just another medium to help you out. The way you use these guidelines is still up to you.

Good thread !!
It is true, you need to develop and build on your character first, your inner confidence, every person in this case man has limitless potential, discover this obvious secret first, and then proceed with the building blocks of social interaction, which are the pick up lines etc. They certainly do help in emulating confidence, which does lead to better things in life, but you want to have a strong sense of your inner self, otherwise you can be easily dismantled by rejection/tough times in your life.

A lot of the responses I have gotten from this thread are along the lines of "keep plowing until things feel right and you see some success and then gain self esteem from these experiences". Perhaps this will work for people who don't have chronic self esteem issues like i experienced.

My theory is that meeting and attracting women is a VERY natural thing to take place. Therefore, with a solid sense of self-worth it should be relatively comfortable and easy. I see pick up material as a utility that provides EFFICIENCY in attracting women and a way of avoiding easy errors.

However, if people have self esteem issues, then pick up is just like a weak external barrier that hides their feelings of inadequacy. I get the feeling that a lot of people come here to seek that 'easy way out', and when it doesnt work (which is bound to happen) they give it up.

I suppose the reason i made this thread was to try to stop people going into pick up as a way of improving their self-esteem, or trying to navigate around the barrier of their weak self esteem, when it should really be an add on to a solid foundation of inner game (and as one other member said 'inner happiness').

Picking up women isnt meant to be hard, its meant to be enjoyable. If you feel like things aren't right, get help first - try a different approach. Then, come back to pick up - you will see things through an entirely different lense and things will fall into place like they should.

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"Action is the foundational key to all success" - Pablo Picasso

Most guys have low self esteem in some respect, at least prior to becoming pua's. That's why they are drawn to pick up. Sure, there are natural alphas who are good looking and great with women, but they get whatever they want and don't feel the need to waste time learning pick up. Becoming a pua raises your self esteem level because you feel more empowered and you become more successful with women.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn