Hello all. First, I want to say without bragging (and since I have nothing to prove to a forum full of strangers, no offense...) That I've been with a lot of women before the current relationship I'm in. I know the game and this is my first time in a PUA forum. Am I a know it all? Definitely not, and I'm sure there's always more to learn from this community as well. I just want to give some sense of my past so someone doesn't use the old "There are other fish in the sea!" analogy on me.

I'll keep this as brief as possible, and I stress that I am. So the details I'm summarizing in their simplest form. Okay, so I finally found myself in a relationship that became more than sex. A relationship where I really love the girl and want to marry her. I met her when I was like 20, she is 25 with two kids and an ex-husband (yes, know it sounds bad already). When we first met I was distant from her kids and kept the relationship focused on us. I'd ignore them, shoo them away if they approached my laptop, would tell her to have them pipe down. I was a dickhead. I realize that. Her mother would observe some of my behavior and well, that poisoned that well. Stepdaddy of hers feels the same way (naturally).

We've been together two years. The first year was just dating with no serious expectations, certainly not of marriage. It was more like constant sex. Yeah, so we're a year in and my feelings are growing for her. We have fantastic chemistry. Suddenly the kids have to become more of a priority. I started doing minor efforts to change my relationship with them. But not enough in her mind.

So, fast forward to now. I transferred to an Ivy League school. She's back home attending a local state uni. She meets a new guy there, guy that already graduated college, didn't find consistent employment and is a continuing ed pre-med student. I am saying this completely objectively, not from the fact that she's now dating him. The guy IS very fugly. He's two years older than me. Sexual performance is just "ok" to her (for me she acknowledged it as a solid 10/10, and based on her reactions as we did the deed, I know she wasn't fibbing.) And he acknowledges himself as a "private investor" under work experience for Linkedin.

Reasons she liked him when I asked her on the phone "What's he got better than me?!?!" and she answered "He listens. He is more understanding of me. He is great around the kids and my parents like him." Basically, her priorities are long-term potential. With me I never demonstrated that, although I said after college I'd give her what she needs (that next step, was even going to propose after this semester). When I pressed her why we're ending she told me reasons ranging from "I felt self-conscious around you. I felt like you never listen. You never made an effort with the kids. My family dislikes you and my sister said you're pompous." And yeah, she basically relays this to her friends about her concerns and they all just reinforce her with "Oh yeah, he's bad for you." So she's getting this from a lot of people.

It's now been almost three weeks since we've broke up. I found myself doing everything outside of what I have or ever done. I reacted completely emotionally. Doing everything a how to article on "How to get your ex back" would warn you against doing. The whole step #1, don't contact her. Step #2, accept the break-up, step #3, not running back to her when she calls, and step #4, date/fuck new women. Haven't done any of that. Oh no.

My nightmare strategy went like this. Called her excessively, crying voicemails, called her house, spoke to mom, asked mom to put me on with her, messaged her best friend, best friend tells me to forget about her. I email her excessively. Her parents (she still lives with them) eventually block my phone number from her cell phone plan and their house phone. My girlfriend/ex now considers me as harassing her. Let me reiterate, I have never reacted this way before in my life, it was all very impulsive. I even proposed to her once over the phone to "demonstrate" my commitment to her. She said "I can't now."

So now that I've done everything I shouldn't have done, here's where I am now. We're 6 hours away from each other, he's nearby all the time. She removed me from facebook, he's her relationship now. I told her I want to come home and see her next weekend, to free the weekend up. She told me she may give me some time but (in her words) "expecting us to talk, let alone meet up so soon. If we do meet up we will only be talking, nothing more." She also told me she might be spending time with her best friend as well as clean her room at home (where I'm no longer welcome, parents house) and attend a "group study" at her local uni. All of which, to me, translates to "Seeing this guy"

I still have the opportunity to see her this next week. Our last conversation was along the lines of "I've moved on...." etc etc. Not much improvement. My strategy for next week was this: See her, keep it light, go over some of her school work (we always helped EACH OTHER with school work), possibly fuck her, take her to dinner, propose, whether it's a yes or no, take her home, fuck her all night long to assert my dominance as a better lover, when we're done, put the ring on her finger and tell her "If you don't want this, just leave it on the night table, I'll understand."

But I want to translate the above to reality. I don't like the typical winning back an ex strategy, and it doesn't seem to take my situation into consideration. Single mom, two kids, distant relationship. I was younger and didn't think once our relationship would blossom the way it did. I want to take her of her kids with her now. I really do love her after being with 50+ women. I know I'm a better guy than him. Since our phone conversation we haven't been talking much though. Meanwhile I'm told business is as usual between her and her new boyfriend, talking, laughing, affection, happy around him, etc.

I can see her in a week. Is there any strategy I can play besides: Wait, fuck other girls, she becomes jealous, comes back to you. Sorry, but I hate the idea of her seeing this other guy, I hate the idea of her fucking this other guy, to me this guy is nasty and inferior and needs to separate himself from my beautiful but confused girlfriend ASAP. I want to marry her and envisioned adding more kids between us and don't want him anywhere near her or that intimate part of her. I don't want to wait months while he roams those hillsides. Even she acknowledged him as "average looking" while me, in her words, "SEXY."

As is, I've sent her one short follow-up email from our last call which went well up until we got more into me visiting her. Basically saying that I enjoyed our call, to send me other school stuff, etc. Honestly, this break-up has affected my studies significantly. I can't think straight studying, during tests, I've dropped classes. Today I took a test and she was on my mind 80% of the time. It's pathetic. I want this girl back. What should I be doing/what strategy should I have for when I meet up with her? Especially since she's implying that she wants to go see him later that day. Now, obviously I wouldn't restrain her from leaving, but how can I stop that?

Advice people? Sorry for the length. I just wanted to keep this very precise to fully understand to best apply a strategy appropriate to the situation.

Bump

Wow, man, you did NOT handle that well. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't really see anyway you're going to turn this around. In my estimation, the ONLY way you're going to ever have sex with this woman again is if you disappear from her life completely and come back a few years later as a completely different person. You need a fresh start. Every time you persist with trying to contact her now, just makes your chances worse in the future.

The best thing that could come from this is that you'll learn from the experience. As you stated, you pretty much did everything wrong. The correct thing to do would have been to be understanding when she broke up with you, not reacted negatively, and then kept in contact as good "friends" (while improving yourself, dating other girls, building an awesome social circle, etc). Then, when she got bored of the "provider guy", she would have been much, much more likely to give a relationship with you another shot.

The hard truth is that you now need to move on (i.e. GFTOW and all that). Cut contact completely, learn to live in the moment, and push this girl from your memory. Absolutely nothing good will come of pursuing this further.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

Basically this.

You also need to realise that when MOST women have kids they prioritise their babies above everything else. You can fuck her like a god, be the sexiest man alive but if you aren't providing a safe and stable future for her kids then your value will severely decrease.

The more you push at her, the easier you make it for her to rationalize to herself that she'd made the right decision in leaving you.

You're coming across as unstable (not saying you are, but your frantic pursual of her would likely scare anyone off, unless they were of very low self-esteem). The more you chase after her, the lower you diminish your perceived value, and more importantly he worse you'll feel about yourself, and believe you me it'll be much harder to approach other women once you've thoroughly dragged your self-esteem into the gutter.

Right now, think what's best/healthiest for you, nevermind her she's made her decision. I think the sooner you get on with your life, the greater the chance you'll have of eventually meeting up with her again, and who knows by that point you might only see her as friends material, or perhaps just an ex and nothing more.

Again, SHE HAS MADE HER DECISION, YOU CANNOT CAJOLE HER INTO SPENDING TIME WITH YOU, IT WILL ONLY PROLONG THE PAIN AND KEEP YOU LOCKED IN THE PAST.

Wolfwoodd, yeah, I know, I handled it horribly. Atrociously actually. But I live and learn quickly. See, I never cared enough about a girl to react in a way based strictly on emotion, which was what this was, a moment of weakness. I'm composed again. I hear you on your advice man, it's solid, I like it, and I've used it before. The thing is, I won't care about her anymore after several years, and come on man, "a few years," live and fuck my way through many women while pining for her? I really think you know your stuff man, but you and I know that just wouldn't be happening.

BITmixit:

Sup. I know man. My first single mom, my first single mom and she turns into the woman that I love the most in life. Yet like many of my relationships I acted cool, reserved, detached, from both her and her kids and just focused on keeping things casual. That slowly changed after our first year. It sucks, she said to me her mind tells her she doesn't think I can change based on what she's seen even when her "heart" wants to tell that it can. I couldn't possibly tell her "Oh, I was being a careless alpha asshole to keep things more sexy and less emotional."

HeavyRota8tion, yeah man, kind of like what Wolfwood touched upon. She said she would spend some time with me though.

Basically guys, I've spoken on the phone with her, I was able to open up and be sensitive about how I feel without acting like a total pussy, framed it among the lines of "Babe, I really love you, and I've been through enough relationships to discover that it really is genuine." She eventually broke down, cried, called me "babe" back over the phone. Yet on the flip side her friend tells me things are still chummy with this guy, they're affectionate, she "misses him" when he's busy with his shitty continuing ed. This guy is fucking beta. Two relationships his whole life, his last one four years ago. Supposedly sucks at sex and is only good at licking snatch (a talent easily acquired). He gets "nervous" and even has trouble getting it up. Seriously guys, what the fuck here? Is he merely daddy potential? She tells me shit like "He listens, he understands me, I feel self-conscious around you." blah blah blah.

Guys, years later I won't be interested. Would you? We got to have pride. I'm not going to be her back-up when the "provider" gets too boring. I have a shot next week. I know I had a moment of weakness but I don't plan to have another one. What would my best strategy be here?

Listen, if you couldn't handle this situation properly when it came up, what makes you think you can handle marriage?

Right now you're acting 100% on tilt, you're thinking marriage is the solution, you're thinking marriage will magically turn you into the long-term provider for her and her children.

Take a step back, and fucking realize you need to work on yourself before you even think about marriage. You have dozens of inner game issues that need to be solved.

I can understand the frustration of losing someone, and the desire to get them back. But there's a reason they left. Reflect back on yourself and improve your individuality so that things like this won't happen again.

VietnameseProdigy, while I appreciate your bit, I had intended to propose to her BEFORE she broke-up with me. Was planning to do it this Christmas actually. So I wasn't looking at it as a way to stay with her. And with all due respect, I didn't handle one situation as well as I could have, I don't think that means I can't handle marriage life.

You don't love her. You just don't like the idea of losing. You mentioned this useless observation several times but what difference does it make to you if the guy's a handsome millionaire or as you put it, "some fugly loser"?

You just want to win her back to make a point that you're better than some 'fugly loser'. . . and if you think about this logically, winning her back doesn't really make you any better than the fugly loser does it? To prove that you are better than him would be to walk away from the woman that loves the fugly loser. You know this already. . . which is why if you ever got back together with her, you'd dump her in a few months. She knows this already too . . . which is why she's shutting you out.

You did her and yourself a HUGE favor. . . but you might only realize this some years later down the road. There's something else that you should learn from this. . . your ego seems to influence your heart a great deal; this can be a powerful attribute that can lead to success in many endeavors but with the matters of the heart, it could lead to regrettable behaviors.

And come on. . . you're a pua. I know she might seem hot right now but out in the market, this girl is getting hitched with a 28 year old loser, 35 year old guy in the middle of an average career or a 50 year old successful guy. you've got 30+ years of choosing and banging desperate 25 year old yummy mummies. (Like that Halloween reference?)

And really. . . do you think she's telling the other dope that he's a 5/10 in the sack? To him, you're the 5/10 and he's the 10/10? Haven't you figured this out after being with 50+ chicks?

Move on. Let her go, by doing so you'll really be freeing yourself.

It matters not how you perceive him, she's chosen to be with him and your struggle to win her back is coming from a very egoic place. Respect the fact she's moved on, and focus on finding your own happiness.

Kasabi, first off, did you read my last post? I was planning to propose to her before the break-up. And I didn't even see the break-up coming. I do love her man. As for him thinking he's a 10/10, not according to her friend, and not according to what her friend told me (where my girl told her I was literally a 10/10 and that he was mediocre). And this is a friend that doesn't even like me. Go figure.

Oh yeah, I knew you wouldn't be taking my advice. I was in the exact same situation when I was much younger and I was bitter about it for nearly 2 years afterwards. I didn't take anybody's advice either. However, I DID meet up with the girl again 8 years later, gamed her properly, and slept with her. It was one of the most validating experiences of my life and I'm still really good "friends" with the girl.

So, yes, I understand, but I still had to try.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

As others have mentioned, your pride is currently your downfall. You feel the need to match yourself with others, you listen to what other's say to fill your desires of self-value. Fuck that shit, women dont leave you for no reason, she had hers, you fucked it up.

You fucking up, is not the point right now, You're trying to fix something that cant be repaired. We dont care that he's a 5/10 and that you're the 10/10, what we do care about is helping you out on setting this shit straight, you're not co-operating.

I guarantee you, a person is, who he is, imagine that this relationship does get back to what it was, there's still this insecurity about who you are, you wanna change yourself, your values, for this woman. It's possible yes, but on long-term, it'll drive you nuts.

The only real solution, and i'm talking about a real solution, is to go cold turkey, and indeed come back as a different person. Start off with your pride, you wont archieve anything if you're gonna match yourself with other people. Follow your own ambitions, dreams and goals, try and work yourself up by your own standards, not those of others.

newbies come onto this forum to do two things
1. Post their problems, and how they plan to fix it
2. Let other members validate their little plan, so then you gain some kind of confidence boost "yay my plan is good, I'm going to go test it now because 3 other pua approve."

However if the other members don't agree with the plan, the newbie then starts to go into denial rather than taking the advice/solutions right in front of them.

In what amounts to an essay, you are essentially telling us:

1. You love this girl.
2. How do I get this girl back?

To back the claims for #1, you tell us that you were planning to propose to her as a guy might say, "I love this car so much, I'm going to buy it." But here's the thing. If you sat with this car guy for a conversation, he'd tell you a whole lot about this car. Hell, a 5 year old kid has a lot more to say about his love for the red power ranger than you do about your girl. You wrote a whole lot about the fugly guy, what her friends say and say not, what her family thinks of you, what you did and did not, blah, blah, blah, I have an ego issue, blah, blah. It's very difficult to lie through written language.

Oh, and I'd like to tell you just one more time. . . you are at an age where you should consider observing reality as opposed to what one ditzy girl heard from another ditzy girl.

Or just go with it, fuck her a few more times, get tired of her, and dump her. She doesn't seem that bright and you do seem be a bit of a masochist. . . the World won't end either way.