So, I have this pet peeve: paying the entire bill on the first date. Here's the way I see it. Women fight for their feminist rights, claiming that they deserve equality...which they do. But then they want to also be accorded special SPAM on top of the equality. I'm over it. It's the principle of the thing. Also, I'm a poor graduate student and I can't be picking womens' tabs every time I go on a date or I'll go broke.

Now, I've dated plenty of women where each party pays their own tab and it's fine. Most of these women are fellow graduate students or even undergraduate students and there's kind of an understanding that we are all broke here so let's just worry about ourselves. But then there are other women...

I went on a date last night and she arrived about 10 minutes late. That's fine, I bought myself a beer and started my tab. She went and ordered a drink and started her own tab. Everything went great. There was lots of flirting and even some kissing. But later in the night, she called me out as being a cheapskate (which I am). I rolled with it and made some comment about how I don't pay for sex. As the night progressed she wouldn't let it go; she kept harping on "dating etiquette" blah blah blah. She even made a couple of comments about how if I wanted sex tonight I should probably pay her tab. Well, that really rubbed me the wrong way. I have enough success with women and I'm not going to have some women hold sex over my head for anything, not even a $20 beer tab. So, I was getting kind of frustrated, thinking to myself: what kind of women decides whether to spread her legs over a $20 beer tab. So, we decide to play a game of darts and the loser pays both tabs. I'm about to win, so she grabs her purse and leaves for the night.

Now, I really didn't care about this girl all that much so it wasn't that disappointing. But, am I really in the wrong here? Would you guys have just paid the tab (assuming you are NOT desperate for sex)?

And one last question, is there a way to set the frame such that it's acceptable for each party to pay his or her own tab?

Thanks!

first off, speaking in terms of honesty and all political correctness aside, women always want all of the privileges of equality with none of the responsibilities.

think about it, when is the last time you heard some angry feminist going off about not having to sign up for the draft at age 18? enough said.

however, customarily speaking, men pay when dating. we know that it is changing, and in certain settings with certain people it is different, however, customarily men have paid for the dates. so, yes, women use this as a shit test. but she can also attack you for it if she is truly intent on being a bitch. i used to be a bartender, i can not tell you how many arguments and fights i saw start over this very subject. directly in front of from the people i was serving drinks too, lol. so you aren't alone.

as for how to handle it, i have no idea. i'm starting to think like you at this point. i'm well into my thirties, and up until now i have paid for every date i have ever been on, every drink, every meal, every vacation, everything. i've done it out of custom, but i was also a huge afc and didn't realize there was any other option.

how to handle it is going to be from the very beginning to let it be known that you don't pay for other people and you aren't going to buy affection! how to do that? well, that is the $64,000 question, and hopefully one of the mPUA's will be along soon to discuss how to set this up right into your frame.

i'll be watching this thread, because quite frankly i'm sick of paying for women too. a hooker would be cheaper and less maintenance.

Im of the opinion that if im asking a girl out for a few drinks then I pay. Firstly because it was an invitation to her to come for drinks and secondly its "etiquette". Now if you dont want to pay then dont go for drinks go for a walk in the park etc.

I pay and happy to pay. I went out with a girl a couple of weeks ago, I paid and spent about 80 quid. I know for a fact that she doesnt earn much and I earn way way way more than her so 80 quid to me isnt as much as 40 quid would be to her.

I do think alot of us go over the top with the whole paying issue. I think if im dating a girl or even going on a first/second or twentieth date then I should pay. However there is a point when she does the paying at times i.e. buying dinner for us or drinks or coffee etc.

Mack - in your case i wouldnt have paid but I also would have walked out and not tolerated that shit from the get go Not because i mind paying but it was obvious that she was just a glorified bitch who just wanted you to pay for her shit.

I really want a proper and well thought out answer to this question as well. Well me... When I go on dates it's usually me bouncing to many areas so the most I'd buy is a drink for her and a drink for me. By going to so many places and not spending too much time at one place it has allowed me to spend less money lol. I don't know why this works but it does for me... Don't do dinner dates

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futility is doing the same thing over again expecting different results... change the way you do things and get different results... experiment

If you really want a "proper" and "well thought out" answer to your question, maybe you should just patiently continue with the conversation instead of basically insulting the first two people who replies "properly" and "thoughtfully", but just didn't happen to say the exact thing you wanted to hear. Lighten up and converse. These threads can go for pages and pages and you may stand to learn a lot, that is until you make comments like the one above.

Lol @ Mack this isn't my thread man... I want a good answer to this question too

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futility is doing the same thing over again expecting different results... change the way you do things and get different results... experiment

Pandora's Box comes in useful in figuring out the answer to this question.

If they're a realist split the bill. If they're an idealist pay it.

While I do see where you are coming from, what do you do when the girl isn't a feminist? I am more talking about a girl that doesn't take up the double standard? What then? I am more just throwing you a curve ball as its bond to happen at some point if not already.

After reading what you said, I don't think you in the wrong for not paying her tab. If it was me I would have taken things further and told her if I was to pay for her tab for sex she would be a prostitute, a cheap one at that. And would have explain to her I might as well give her $20 for sex. If she gets pissed off from that I would have asked her how is that any different from me paying for her drinks. Then I would have gone into the economics of it and explain how we are exchanging good and services here.

I have to say its amazing how girls react when you point out they are prostitutes when you buy them a drink or in this case pick up their tab for sex.

Saying that I am old fashion and if I ask the girl out I pay for her or at least offer to (I have had girls demand to pay their way those ones make me happy). Tho in the start when I first date a girl I always always go cheap on her. I do this as a way to test the girl really to see how she reacts to me being cheap. Because if she digs me for it or attacks me for it then she ain't for me then as she is likely to be a gold digger or a girl that is materialistic or values money to much for my liking.
I would think it is possible, tho the only way I know of is to make it clear up front each party pays their way. Tho it won't be easy. You could try using the equality angle and say you think she should pay her way in the name of equality and if she tries to call you out on it you can bring up the double standard. Tho doing that may not net you many dates.

From my experience...if the girl is of any quality it's hard to get her to pay and even bringing it up can make things go south pretty quickly...I've heard some gurus talk about getting women to pay for dates and it is possible but it is a double edge sword because it kind of shows low value...most women want a successful guy but if you don't want to pay it somehow indicates you have money problems.

Ironically in my experience it is much easier to get a woman to pay if you are economically on a higher level then her. In this case you can approach it from the standpoint (subconsciously) of you giving her a test to make sure she's not a golddigger. Very hard to pull off if she is on the same economic level (you come off as cheap or a jerk) or a higher economic level...(then you just look like you're broke.)

Best solution in my experience is to be very selective of who you take on dates and/or choose inexpensive places to go.

This one is easy lads...just pay..its the first date and she has agreed to meet you. Don't know about US girls but British girls will usually offer to split it. In this instance its nice that she has offered its the sign of a good girl. When you do pay tell her that she can pay next time. This is a good way of letting her know that you ARE going out again.

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Why So Serious?

I agree with this. If you ask someone out, it's on you to pay and you disarm any guilt she may have by saying, "You can pick up the tab next time."

Feminism really has blurred the line here. I met a girl who's never had a guy buy her movie ticket- ever. And you know how girls sometimes rationalize, "He didn't try to kiss me on the first date. So he must not be into me"? I took a girl out for a casual early dinner. We had good conversation and there was a fun vibe. When she wanted me to pay for my dinner and insisted on paying for hers, I rationalized it as, "I'm having fun, but make no mistake, I'm not interested in you like that."

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"Let me ask you something. If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?"

I always pay. Simply as that.

I have went out with girls like that. Don't give her the prostitute speech. This will totally kill attraction if there was any to begin with. I personally pay for the first date all the time if i invited her. If she offered to pay, i decline her offer and pay anyway. In your situation mate, i strongly believe she didn't cash on her at the time. She was defending the fact that you pay that time very strongly and then she ran away. Anyway, first date pay. If you think she is not willing to pay for future dates, cut her off, or make it clear for her that you can't afford to pay for both of you in the future. Simple as that

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In this world, you don't get what you deserve but what you fight for!