If she doesn't flake, I have a date with this girl.

Now, she's interested, but she had the frame for the most part in the bar. I pretty much said "Fuck PUA" that night and just went to have a normal conversation with her. Turns out I went slightly AFC in a few things. I kept running into her frame, whereas I should've just ignored some of the stuff and moved forward.

The biggest thing was when we were alone and close outside I talked, looked into her eyes and said "I can't stop thinking about kissing you right now" and she responded with "I'm not that easy." Whatever. Should've said "I didn't say I was gonna kiss you, don't flatter yourself honey."

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is she likes to play games, the typical fight for power, and I'm pretty sure if I win she'll turn submissive, but she hasn't yet. She was astounded by my cold reading her, which kept her interested, she thought I knew her through a friend. I don't, complete stranger. She's playful, and also high confidence. All great things, but I'm still working on witty comebacks.

What is the best way to regain the frame this Saturday? To make her submissive? She's the type that said "If you want to kiss me you've got to earn it." Obvious shit test, which I dunno if I passed, but it shouldn't have come to that in the first place.

Nothing is hostile. Everything is playful. I just need advice on how to be able to handle a high self-esteem girl like this one, who knows what kind of guy she wants, cause I've never went out with one like this before. I'm guessing be non-reactive to her shit, and just change topic if I don't have a come-back? Ignore her attempt for frame control?

If you need additional details, just say! Thanks.

"People can only have as much power over you as you let them."

Cliched. But cliches are generally true.

You say this woman has the "higher frame" and that she likes to indulge in games and power plays. That's all well and good, but it's not about her. It's about you.

Now, you can worry about whatever is going on in her head, and the impression you are making on her. Or, you can just go ahead and direct the meeting and the conversation and take the lead. She will admire you for it, and maybe be attracted to you because of it.

Don't look at this as some sort of pseudo-competition. It isn't. It's an opportunity for you to spend some time with this great girl who's playful and high on confidence. Trust me, no one is going to keep a score if you end the night on a high point.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

Hey mate .

Aaah, those high self esteem girls . those are the best, trust me!

about high self esteem shit tests. There was a thread not so long ago on which i posted something about shit tests and high self esteem girls, at the end. link is here:

need-help-from-experienced-puas-to-crit ... 41914.html

When you try to beat a girl at playing games, you are going to lose. Playing games is invented for girls, its genetically coded into them, they are going to beat you. So, dont try to make her submissive, you are going to hit massive resistance, and its going to turn ugly. One of you two is going to get frustrated when you are going to try and make her submissive. Dont try to 'overframe' her, just stick honesty.

There is only one way to beat game playing girls and that is to not play at all. Be direct and honest about what you want. Generally speaking, she either likes you or she doesnt, so lets find out fast!

Lets be concrete here with an example:

you: i cant stop thinking about kissing you right now (really mate, i love that line, i think its awesome you said that).

her: haha! i am not that easy!

you: cool! i like that about you. Just dont be too hard to get, cause i lose interest fast with people who play games (and you smile ofcourse, dont say it angry, dont say it with a BA Baracus face. Say it with a nice smile like you are telling her: what you gonna do about it?)

her: (verbally bitchslapped)

The point is: With girls who like to play games, you need to be willing to just turn your back and walk away. Do you like these games? I guess not, neither do i. they make me nervous and frustrated. So i choose to not play and i am willing enough to just shed my skin and walk away. I am always willing to do just that. If it truly comes down to that, stick to your guns and really walk away! its the biggest shit test you can give her. If she is just fooling around but really likes you, she will stop you. If not, you are already walking away, dont stop! NEXT!!! And be darn glad you didnt fall into that pit of insecurity and emotional drainage.

you: i cant stop thinking about kissing you softly in the neck, going down to... your shoulder

her: if you want to kiss me, you got to earn it (this is a very dangerous statement of her btw. for me this is an instant turn off. What am i, her dog?)

you: (look totally turned off) really? Because for a great kiss, you just need to feel it. If you cant feel it, i dont feel like earning it... (smile! dont forget to smile, as you shouldnt care that much actually. If you walk away and she doesnt stop you, she doesnt care either. if she doesnt care, and you would have stayed, you would have been her toy. think about that and the smile will be very genuine)

her: well, i cant feel it ....

you: that is a shame. i do like you though. (instantly be more distant and cold towards her). you really mean it, you are not going to try and kiss her). you know your way home? (smile, dont forget

her: how do you mean?

you: well, lets be honest here. i know what i want. I want to kiss you all over your body. It doesnt look like you want it, so there is no point in hanging around. I am going home. You know your way home?

You see? this is already drastic, but you got to stick to your guns. If you say you are going to do something, DO IT. Counter ladies who play games with raw and brutal honesty. Go for what you want, she either want it as well or she doesnt. If you join in their games, you are a lost cause. yes your time with her will be longer. But no matter what you do, you 'll never earn enough to either kiss her or get into her pants. and besides, the whole idea of doing stuff to earn a kiss? Boohoo .

Encourage her in doing what she wants to do! High self esteem is such a nice characteristic in women, one you dont see all that often, so praise her for having it. But dont forget that you know what you want as well AND you are brave enough to just walk away if you dont get. Prove to her that you dont need her with all her games. You need a real woman who isnt afraid of her own sexuality.

So go spend time with her, have fun, be yourself, doesnt matter if you go a bit AFCish. That dont matter mate, as long as you are brutally honest towards yourself and honest towards her when you feel she is playing games or shittest you. the honesty towards yourself is CRUCIAL!!! Do i really need to earn this kiss? If she really likes me, do i really need to go as far as earning a kiss? Wouldnt she be glad that i feel the same way? These are the questions you need ask yourself and that you need to answer honestly!!! Then, instead of trying to be witty, just be honest, and you will verbally bitchslap her like a chicken hit by a freight train.

Be like a freaking spartan in some army of 300! You stated what you want like a man. Now lets put her to the test! And while you test, smile . You know why you are smiling at that moment .

I hope i was clear here. If you got questions, shoot amigo!!

cheers and good luck

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

you don't have to control every thread to lead the frame, the frame is simply the meaning behind the interaction, between two people, the person who is most certain of what that meaning is, will define the frame, simply through sub-communication, generally speaking, when it comes to social status, the person who reacts the least to the frame of others around them, will have the highest percieved social status

so, lets analyze your interaction from what you wrote

"I can't stop thinking about kissing you right now"

so, this sets a frame of, guy wants to kiss girl, your frame is, I want to kiss you

so now, her reaction to your frame is, ''I'm not that easy'', so she false dis-qualifies herself, it's not a no, just how she re-frames, it can be considered a test of congruence, but basically her frame is just, I'm not a slut (regular asd)

now, your reaction is
Should've said "I didn't say I was gonna kiss you, don't flatter yourself honey."

^ this is incongruent from your original frame (guy wants to kiss girl), and is in reaction to her frame (girl doesn't want to kiss guy), when you get a ''congruence test'', remaining congruent and not reacting, is the easiest way to pass

so basically, if it falls within your frame, then it is you explaining yourself based off your point of view, and what you percieve the frame to be

if the interaction falls within her frame, then it is you explaining yourself based off her point of view, and that is you reacting to her perception of the frame

example:

''I'm not that easy''

from your frame (my re-frame): ''hey, if you are trying to pretend to be something you're not just to change what I think about you, you don't have to, I already like you and want to kiss you''

this leaves room for her to adopt your frame, and explain things better to you, so you have a better point of view to lead with

the response above works the same as just saying, ''ok'', dissmissing what she says because you hold the belief that was expressed in the above example, as long as you hold the same mind frame, it will reflect in your words and actions, but you have to truly stay strong in your own beliefs, have faith in yourself, as soon as you start reacting to her and see things her way, she will be free to lead you in what ever direction you allow (as long as you are emotionally reacting to her, she can change the frame how ever she wants, and you will see it her way out of reaction, so keep your cool, stay sure of yourself)

from her frame (reacting to her) ''I don't want to kiss you anyways'', ''I wasn't going to try to kiss you anyways'' ''I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply you were easy... blah blah'', ''I didn't say you were easy'', ''fuck you bitch''

as for a fight for power, this is all in your head, and most likely a nice calling sign of the ego, you don't have to fight to be better, it's not a war, it's a partnership, you don't escalate on her and win the war and she finally submitts, it's a mutual escalation, you lead her forward, she complies and comes with you, you don't have to be better, just simply be, you lead, yes, but that does not mean you are better, to lead you simply have to know who you are and what you want, she will only have as much power as you assign her in your own mind, you never have to do anything she asks, you never have to talk about what you don't want to talk about, if it isn't you, then you don't have to do it, you don't have to be around her, you can do as you please, you don't need her, power over you is just an illusion your mind creates from a need to protect an emotional investment, you can walk away at anytime and find something better, being able to realize this can make you feel at home

when you lead, it is simple, you go for what you want, if the compliance is verbal you let them know why (non verbal should be assumed), they either comply or they don't comply, the more responsibility you take for them, the more likely they will comply, if they don't, just don't react, re-frame, try again later, if absolute non compliance, then it is a waste of time to continue leading, the person has to be willing to invest, if you can't gain investment, bring more value or threaten their current investment so they fear losing you, the more invested they currently are, the more that fear of loss exists, if no investment, then they will have almost nothing to fear losing

if you want this girl to stop playing games, then lead, stop playing games yourself, if she is not up for it, and that is what you truly want, then walk away, you don't need her

how to handle a high self esteem girl?, have high self esteem yourself, think outside of her box, what you want, not what she wants, what you're thinking, not what she's thinking, and lead, take the risks, go for it, all she can do is slow you down and as long as you are both enjoying yourselfs, it's no big deal, just express yourself and who you are, help her to see things your way, don't express who you think she wants you to be

GOOD LUCK

Wow guys, thanks for the replies. You're all saying the same thing, so yeah, I'm starting to slowly get it.

I can only lose the game if I play them in the first place.

I stay congruent and honest with what I want.

She only has as much power as I giver her.

I am willing to walk away if she doesn't comply or invest.

I either provide more value somehow or threaten her with me leaving if she doesn't invest.

Escalation is mutual.

Thanks guys.