Let me know what you're guys thought is on this.

I've been reading a lot of the post on this forum and majority of the time the advice given towards a girl that isnt reciprocating or responding is that you freeze out, ignore it, or move on.

When I think of that I always question how really effective is that especially if the girl doesn't care or doesn't think she did anything wrong? If you do any of those actions then they don't even realize they did anything bad?

Sometimes I feel like lashing out on the girl or calling her out on her shit. An example would be for instance a girl calls to hang out when it's convienant for her and doesn't respond to your efforts to hang out other times. Why not just call her out on it and be like hey so you only like to hang out when it's cool for you? (Calling her out on her using you) I feel like if you move on and let it be it condones those actions or she's doesnt even realize it.

Or you put effort into trying to rekindle some stuff with a girl you used to date and she's unresponsives to it. Why not call her out on it instead of letting it be and be like yo are you over this or what? and tell her to screw off? Atleast she realizes it right?

The point isn't to show she did something bad. Thing is, if a girl is constantly flaking, acting shady, fake, etc, she's no good for you. Moving on is advice for guys who are going after one girl when they really should be going after other girls. Pick up as I see it is not about getting any girl to fall in love with you. It's not about winning that crush you've had since 4th grade. It's about recognizing opportunities and capitalizing on them, plus creating some of those opportunities, yourself. I'm an economist, it's what I earned a degree for, and I tend to draw a lot of parallels to it. In this case, I look at the basic economic concept of opportunity cost.

Opportunity cost is the best alternative given up when you make a decision. In this case, it means that the time, effort, and emotion spent pursuing one girl who flakes all the time could be the amount needed to get 3 women who are far less flakey. 3>1, so which would you choose? But guys tend to forget this kind of logic when they are head over heels for a chick.

I been doing the pick up thing for a bit. I finally added myself here and registered. I see some guys have success and they say stuff like they freeze girls out or they delete numbers if they don't come out. It is so different cause, its not what you normally here from pick up artists. I seen some guys in the forum say they delete numbers and girls come back still? That and some girls even contact them? Not sure if it is true.

But aside from moving on as I know it's for our self best interest but why not call her out on it as well? I don't know maybe I want the girl to come to realization the f'd up things they did and not get off scott free? I mean sometimes I think if they are unresponsive then things are already over why not go out with a bang and call her out on it and say F you?

One might think that if you call a girl on your shit you come off as a prissy little bitch who is beta and constantly complaining. But what ive discovered that calling girls out on there shit (always in a lighthearted, simple, one sentenced way which could be interpreted as a double meaning) WORKS. And it works really well on hb9s and 10s especially , if executed correctly. But the truth about those women is that they are looking for men who are confident enough that they arent AFRAID to tell them their flaws. This ends up working as an honest , powerful neg. remember all the posts about how women want men who are better than them? Men who they can adjust THEIR frame to, men who are opinionated and ALPHA? This is a way to show all those things.
AGAIN
I cannot stress enough how important delivery is. Example

I use this when a girl tries to shut me down when im trying to be funny or flirty or cocky with her. Women love shutting men down because it makes them feel powerful and in control, and it puts 99% of men in a spot where they have no clue how to respond. This is EXACTLY When you need to say something like "wow, perfect shutdown :p" (with an impressed look) . NOW. I know this sounds counter productive, and i know it sounds like youre putting yourself down , but youre actually not!

By saying that, you completely throw the girl off guard. That is the last thing she expects you to say (+1) throws the ball in her court (+1) and makes you look like a champ! Insecure beta males would fight back for their status and try to outsmart them again to regain control. (+1) makes you look comfortable in your own skin (+1) and makes her look like a bitch, but not at your expense! (+1) . Its reverse psychology, but trust me. It works. Especially when the woman is being super difficult , unresponsive etc.

Now when you say "perfect shutdown", they will be so stunned that ninetynine percent of the time all they will muster up is a "what? How did i.." and thn that automatically gives you a free pass to explain to her, again, simply, politely confidently, how much of a prick shes being. The only thing she will want to do is apologise, and regain your approval.

By doing this, you take her frame and just twist the living shit out of it until she doesnt even know what to think anymore. She will be impressed by your guts to call her out on her shit in this way. So far, this is the only way i found how to call a girl out without making you seem bad. With this method, you can punish repetatively bad behavior, and use it almost however many times you want unless you balance it out with alot of c&f play arguing (she will still want a challenge remember that)

I only use it when i have to, but it works like a charm. Especially when the girl doesnt really care, and when freezing ber out would completely destroy your chances with her. I think this whole method could be refered to as frame control, as adam lyons refers to it. Anyways, just my theory i came up with. Any questions, feel free to ask. If youre skeptical about this, feel free to challenge this theory as well, id gladly hear some opinions about this. Cheers!

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Romaniac

Listen people... The 'freeze-out' is fucking effective IF you know what you're doing. It's not a 'punishment', it's a tool; another weapon in our arsenal to achieve a desired goal. That's it.

I use it to gain complaince when hitting LMR - that's about it. I sarge ladies in their mid 30's and higher - the "I'm going to ignore you" deal is stupid with mature women.

If I want to do that - I'll simply ignore the fuck out of them period. They MAY come back, at which point I'll fuck them and ignore them again. Then they (usually) get the message.

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All you new people... I'll warn you here and now - stop trying to change the PUA ways. Stop 'wondering' if they fucking work. It's POINTLESS. If you're serious about this - LEARN IT.

The more you practice the MM, and others... the better you'll be. There is NO substitution for experience, and failure is part of that learning curve. There is NO easy way. Is it worth it? Fuck yes.

Do you want to get laid? Shut the fuck up, listen, ASK, and learn.

I'm 45, divorced, I've ran game for YEARS. Now - I'm confident as fuck, damned lethal with my daygame, and I actually ENJOY the approach. 3-4 sets are my favorites - the high from entering a set, and then leading it is fucking awesome. This year, since Jan 2012, I've closed 23 women. The majority being from daygame. So, take that for what it's worth...it's the long-toothed mPUA trying to save you newbs a lot of trouble...

RR

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Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

I remember some years ago when I was inexperienced. I was on a date. It was going well. It was like the first date. The night went on then I told the girl suddenly she can be my girl if she wanted to be. 1st date. I "spilled my guts"....Obvoiusly, this weirded the girl out. However, the night went well so i saw her again. 2 or 3 months passed. I talked to her less. I talked to other girls...about 3 or 4. We hung out now and then. Then suddenly one night when we are making out she brings up being my girl. I had totally forgot. Quite frankly I did not care anymore.

The freeze out is about 1. your sanity not being obsessed with one girl. 2. making the girl sweat, she feels a little worried about "can I get him" "is he interested in me" "am I cute enough" "is he talking to other girls"...because girls have the same insecurities that we do so when you put them under similar pressure they start behaving like AFCs...confessing their feelings, blowing up your phone. They start doing what every guy wants girls to do, they start chasing you. Girls start chasing you.

The freeze out is about putting this fear of losing you into her mind. Other methods of accountability don't do that. If you tell her off or cuss her out you just look even more emotionally invested. She still knows she has you and that you want her. You show that you care. The freeze out makes it look like you don't care and sometimes that will work. However, you have to know how to use the technique and when to use it.

Ofcourse she won't care about losing you if you have not made a good impression upon her and conveyed good value.

Presuming she's not that invested in you a freeze out will backfire (time has passed, she doesn't care, and the rapport by that point is completely gone). That said, only freeze-out when you're absolutely sure the girl IS moderately to deeply invested in you. Calling a girl out, can have virtually the same affect with the added message that she's the one in the driver's seat; your reactivity wont gain you points, and will in fact lower your value to her substantially.

Personally I think freezing out is stupid because it can be seen is a form of pouting. Think back to when you were a child and somebody did something you didn't like - you became passive aggressive and simply wouldn't call that friend, or take that friend's call for a while to stay justified in your anger and also to presumably teach that person a lesson ("you wont place nice? I'll just ignore you then!"). One caveat to freezing out is that the only time it'll work is in the beginning when she doesn't know you too well but for whatever reason she's drawn to you. This is because she does not know how to make sense of your behavior ("is he being aloof, or mad, or what?") sending her on a spiral of emotions entertaining thoughts of what might be going through your head (she'll never know) - point is she doesn't know your patterns at this early stage in the game.

The whole point of freezing out is a form of punishment (classical conditioning) to provide an adverse reaction or response so the behavior is disconintued. The problem with punishment, however, is that while it tells a person what NOT to do, it does not tell them what to do. In addition, it plays on a person's insecurities/attachment fears ("is he seeing someone else, or losing interest in me?") which is highly exploitative and unhealthy, particularly if you want to build a healthy relationship with the person. Is your response to anything she does that you disprove of to simply become aloof and act as though you don't care?

In the end you need to define what your objective is with the woman. If you just want to have her as a fuck buddy then quash whatever shit she's done, act like it didn't happen and just have a cavalier attitude towards things. If you're already having sex with her (this is the point where women typically become more invested and backwards rationalize everything leading up to that point as being the right decision) and you want something more, call her out but do so in a confident, non-aggressive and humble way. Don't rub her face in it; things are only as big a deal as you make them out to be. At the end of the day if you can't control your frame state then perhaps its best to take a step back and get your own shit together so you're less reactive towards others and can establish and maintain boundaries more effectively).

Yeah the problem with Freezing is that the girl does not know why you are behaving that way so she does not know how to correct her behavior. And this can really break a girls confidence down

Very well stated.

RR

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Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.