Hey all,

I'm new to this forum so please be gentle
Any advice would be greatly appreciated (& apologies in advance for the length of my post..)
My situation is that I met this girl on New Years Eve in a club. My friend kiss-closed her friend. She bought me drinks and we ended up dancing. I got her number but didn't get a kiss-close (made a huge newbie mistake and asked if she wanted to kiss). She said she didn't want to right in front of her friend but that it would happen soon.
Anyway, I texted her soon after and arranged to meet up 2 on 2 (her friend +mine)
We got on well that night & I got a lot of IOIs.
The following week brought her out for a meal (alone of course). We talked for about 3 hours and I dropped her home. Again no kiss-close.
I then invited her over to my place and she accepted. We watched a movie and again talked for a while but she wasn't willing to get close on the couch and yet again no kiss - just a peck on the cheek.
So I made another error & asked her what her situation was and she said she 'didnt want to make a mess of things' but that she didn't know how things were with her (& she was maybe hung up on a guy she was with before).
I'm slipping into the LJBF zone here - I got her and her friends out again we went drinking and got on well. I was dancing with another girl (no kissing or touching) and that seemed to make her a little jealous. Anyway still no close because we bundled them into a cab home.
Anyway, I played it cool and didn't text her and now she's texted me and is looking to make contact & meet up again.
What should I do? I feel like I'm an 'orbiter' and I want to get out of that situation and see if I can ignite some kind of spark.
Do you think a club-type SPAM would help?
Any advice will be welcome!!!

Thanks,
Pete

PS: She actually mentioned in front of me that guys she knows usually take what they want & dont ask for things. But I don't want to be too forceful. She also mentioned that she trusts me. I guess I'm afraid of rejection too and a small part of me is just enjoying the female company & I'm afraid of losing her altogether!!

Seems like your verbal is decent since you talked for a long period of time with her. But have you done any kind of kino on her? The kiss should come naturally if you have, and there shouldn't be any awkwardness.. Imo, you've lost her, it's gone too long. My advice would be to freeze her out and game other girls.

Thanks Anivia,

I did a bit of kino in the club with her when I met her (arm & arm etc and dancing) and then on the 2nd night we met. However on the dinner date it was difficult as we were separated by a large table and I drove to & outside the restaurant. In my place also it was a little awkward. She didn't want to scooch closer to me on the couch.
I think you may be right even though I don't like to admit it.
It's possible I might be going out again with her & 2 of her friends and can bring 2 of my own friends.
Am I wasting my time or should I try some more kino (playful) and see if I can isolate her? I really find it difficult to kiss close with a girl I like.
I feel like I have to give it another shot. I don't know if the persistence ethos applies here.
Would you recommend anything in particular?
Also do you think the contact she initiated is in the LJBF mindset?

Sorry for all the Qs - I said I was new!!!

Thanks,
Pete

Hi dude.

Ok, for starters, she is right: real men just go for what they want, be it in a direct way or a not so direct way. But you are afraid. is this the right moment? Will she be alright with it? Its not really the rejection to fear, its more if she will be allright with it.

You need to be more daring, just go for it. She practically told you what to do . I dont know how far your techniques reach, so this might be easier to say then to do, but change your mindset. Dont try to figure out what she is thinking or will be thinking. Its a waste of effort and energy. Be the guy that goes for what he wants, that reaches out for her limits of intimacy. If you cross the line, she will tell you, rest assure. Be that dude that brings excitement. Also remember that those limits of intimacy shift. So what you cannot do at the start of the evening, might be possible in the end.

She obviously likes you, she wouldnt initiate contact and ask to meet up again. She doesnt let you kiss her, but she aint running away either. I dont know if you lost her or not, but she obviously likes you. So i would try again, but like a man this time . Chances are that she will reject you again, but then at least you know and also: you will never win anything if you never risk anything.

cheers! if questions, shoot!

_________________
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I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
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placebo - every me, every you

Thanks LD,

That's great advice. I really appreciate it mate.
Yes I'm extremely afraid of rejection!!
You're right though - if I let the fear get to me it'll only make it worse.
I'll try and change my mindset and go out to have fun (try escalate kino towards the latter stages of the evening and try to make a move if she's being compliant).
That old saying "He who dares - wins" though.
The only final bit of advice is do you have any good kiss-close techniques?
I liked the 'trust test' one where you ask how good a kisser on a scale of 1-10 she is but maybe it won't work in my case.
Any recommendations?

Thanks again!

u need to get her out one on one at all costs and show her time of her life, make it hard for her to not be around u. If u give her a positive experience she'll be more enticed, and it's fundamental to building attraction. She maybe considering an ex cause she doesnt like her current options; if there was a viable and BETTER current option she'll take that instead. get her out.

yes u need to isolate but u clearly havent established enough comfort with her yet which will be harder if u r with a bunch of people especially if ur not good at isolating. U and her go out, but have a plan.

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Thanks papichulo,
The plan I'm thinking up is starting off with a meal 3 on 3. 2 of her friends with 2 of mine. My other two friends are interested in her friends (& it appears likewise) so there should be potential to isolate.
Once the meal is over it'll be karaoke time, then onto a club (hopefully).
If I get to the club I can try to isolate and further kino escalate on a 1 to 1 environment. I'm just bad at pulling the trigger.
I'd appreciate any advice /ideas on some good kino / kiss-close techniques you guys might have.

Thanks,
Peter

Stop being scared to loose her. Get it in your head she is already won. Once you believe this it will show through with your actions. The k-close should not at all feel awkward. You should feel zero effort when trying to kiss her. If there is negative tension or residence, you haven't built up enough comfort and attraction. You need to be more forward and use a lot of kino. I try to keep contact with my targets at all times. If we are sitting talking I'll rub her knee, if I'm telling a story standing up I'll put my hand on her shoulder or put my cheek against hers and talk into her ear at a loud club. When dancing pull her in close and put you hand on her stomach. Control her hips with your hands, don't be afraid to kiss her neck if her back is against you.

Basically you need to change the frame and be dominant. You're acting like a scared little boy in her eyes... she even told you that. Be her man! Be the guy her mom always warned her about. Be the guy who makes the bold moves that no one else makes. Be her fantasy, sweet her away in front of everyone.

Good luck bud.

Cheers hardkink - you're right.
I think I need to build more attraction and certainly I need to use a lot of kino because that's whats dropped the last couple of times and it seemed to have an effect. Being out and in a different environment will hopefully help.
I appreciate your advice.
Btw, do you think it'd be OK when I isolate her to use the Cube routine and try to escalate things further then?

Thanks

I never use the cube, palm reading, ext. To me it's all just fluff. Why over complicate what should feel natural. I'll use a fun or funny opener/routine just to get past the bitch shield. (You have no bitch shield to get past) Then move straight to conversation and LOTS of kino.

Kino is the best tool you have, it's what builds sexual energy and ultimately has the biggest effect on closing. The other crap doesn't matter. Just be fun free and interesting. Let your body make the moves.

Thanks Hardkink,
I'm going to get out there and do my best.
One final question if you don't mind...
If she's unresponsive to kino & I've escalated her would it be a total AFC question to ask if she's sure she doesn't want to be anything more than friends?

- #1 AFC (RP)

If you ask that she will put you there. You need to look up compliance test. You can start off slow and build her up. Then once you have her compliance. You can escalate more kino. But you need to make sure your kino comes across natural. There is a difference in being the creepy groper and the kino'ing pua. LOL

If you do muck it up. Remember you didn't fail. You learned.

Hi guys,
Thanks again for all the good advice.
Myself and my friend (that kissed her friend) actually went out with them at the weekend. What happened was they got in touch first and wanted to meet.
They wanted to do it during the day and take a walk.
We chatted, laughed, they took pics of us etc..
We actually picked them up, went for the walk and ended up hanging out for hours and hours - there was a little kino (no escalation!) and just a peck on the cheek goodbye.
They want to meet again. This Friday / Saturday night to go out so hopefully it'll be different then.
Does it sound like I'm firmly in the friend zone or should I stick with my plan & go for it?

THanks