Not sure if this was brought up on here or not, but wow! For those that haven't seen it, this is by far breaking all the rules of the game.

Women Beware, Men Are Manipulating Your Emotions Against You To Get You Into Bed

I may offend some people here when I say this and I'm up for any discussion but honestly, yeah, I've read some of his material. Yeah, he is considered to be the first big name out there in this not so underground community anymore, but from everything I've heard and seen about Ross Jeffries, he's kind of a bitch. Dr Phil kind of put him on blast becuase Jeffries said "certain people are teaching ways to manipulate a womans emotions with a technique called push pull, they have it broken down on their dvds, three different steps per phase, just to make the woman feel unvalidated and unsure of herself, so they'll cling to his side." Dr phil brings up what Jeffries promotes on his website, the whole you dont get laid I dont get paid, Gettin Pussy Newsletter, and everything else.

The entire reason I'm bringing this up is because I don't see why if you created something, your now putting it on blast... Because your hyponsis is all bullshit? Because there's actually competition with in my opinion, better material??

I'm not saying Venusian Arts are the best, but Mystery is the most well known due to the abundence of material released, including the new york best sellers and the VH1 show. And from personal experience, I was able to connect with that material better. Like most in this community, I was already able to get girls of value, social interaction just fasinates me. I love and hate this game at the same time. With that being said it's something I've already been doing for years, before I even knew about the whole pua scene, and what this did was help me understand what exactly's happening and ways to break things down with the outline so I have a better understanding of what to look out for and where I stand in all areas.

It's no secret, and I actually talk about this in my routines. I bring up where most people (guys/girls) lack and use it as a form on connection with the girl. But for Mr Jeffries, what little respect I had for him is now gone. You see true colors when people are at their lowest.

http://youtu.be/6t62cnVDC0I[/i]

I feel bad for anyone that gets into PUA without ever realizing the insidious marketing money-making side of it. Everything you need to know about being successful with women is available for free. Anyone trying to sell you a new method is just taking already existing information and putting into in a nice package with a price tag.

Basically it comes down to, if you are spending more money buying pick-up information than it costs to sleep with a hooker, you are a moron with your money.

I started off on fast-seduction, and left that hellhole when I came across Debunking the Seduction Community. I don't know where I would have been in my life if my ignorant highschool mind decided NLP or the convoluted mystery method was the way to success with women. I certainly would have never gotten my first girlfriend because I would have been trying to run "comfort routines" while being oblivious to the fact that she already liked me, and I all I had to do was ask her out.

When and if I have a son, I'll let him do it the "natural" way. Encouraging him to stumble through the darkness and heartbreak when he's 14, and just getting interested in girls. I'm not going to give him an ebook.

Purple smash, whatever that's supposed to mean... That has nothing to do with what I was saying in this post. Thanks for the response though? What I was getting at was the fact that now that its a flurishing business, and he has a little competition, he wants to throw everyone under the bus and say it's something that it's not. Even if it was, he's the "one who created it" correct?? I'm sorry for your mishaps with his company, as I said, all of his material, as broad as some may be, is bullshit. Raise your hand next time you wanna speak.

Now as to nothing ever being new, that's not true either. I'm in the process of writing my own material on this artform which is very different than what is out now. There are simulatiries, but you also have to realize that not every girl is the same, not every setting is the same, just like not every game is the same. What I'm getting at is, if you go around asking 55 girls out, yes, you will get at least one. Hey 50 nos and 1 yes is still a yes right? That mindset is for losers in my opinion and you will really end up selling yourself short. Did you end up keeping this little sweetheart that you learned all of this material for? You get exactly what you put into something like this. It's like music, you put in no effort, you wont be able to play the guitar, you put forth enough effort and you end up playing madison square garden. I was good when I started and this industry helped me map out exactly what I was doing and showing me ways to identify within myself to improve certain aspects.

I'm not trying to talk shit, but if your gonna slam the industry I don't see why your even on here.

You aren't so different from Ross Jeffries.

You have no argument. Plain and simple. Slander the competition is a bullshit marketing tool in the way this was displayed, blow them out of the water, undercut them, all this are marketing tools but again, not the point I'm getting at. He failed miserably and looked pathetic as he was slammed on the show for making contradicting statements. Ross jeffries was one of the ones running what we all know today as bootcamps with very little ideas on how things will turn out. Back when they didn't have any real venues to run it out of, they ran it out of classrooms they broke into, houses of people they let run it and turned things into a business which built the foundation of the business today. That's why he states himself as the king

And the fact of the matter is she broke your heart over someone like me, goin into it with that bullshit mindset "yea!!! I fucked the shit out of her!!" Gives you shit results. Every girl I approach I built a connection with so YES it can be done, do I have off days? Sure everyone does but every approach I get a number, all very high quality, every number I give it two days. It can be done. It's all about reading who your talking to and shedding that light of your personality smalls.

And 55 approaches was off your bullshit ill let my son learn on his own, and how taking a shot I'm the dark seems to be your key game. and please explain where i used slander anywhere in my post, beyond saying jeffries material is bullshit.. BTW that's voice of opinion, not slander..

And nope I haven't spent shit on anything I've reviewed. Where have I sold anything? Just stating that the business is growing and ever changing. Look at any of my posts, tell me where I'm selling something. You have no argument bro.

Ain't this a very old video?

the thing is we are drawn to people who remind us of ourselves and we choose 'pick-up teachers' in the same way we choose to use what they sell us to get laid.. so guys who are more nerdy or have a background and nlp or hypnosis gravitate towards speed seduction and ross jeffries. guys who want to get laid and act like a rockstar go towards mystery.. and guys who say that they dont want to act 'creepy like a pua' go towards naturals like gambler and adam lyons..

the other part is the guys that rj was having a pop at were instructors at mysterys previous training camp who just recycled his ideas and kept the name and own the rights to his book. that company is now love systems.

i dont particularly like getting involved in arguments about pickup artists but i think it should be a balanced argument

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life sucks and then you die! deal with it

Yea i think so, like I said, I've heard about what he was trying to do but I thought he'd be a little more professional

Yeah that I can understand and respect. I normally don't get into arguments either, all I was trying to do was get my point across when my post was being taken on a completely different of context than what I was meaning.