It's late, I'm bored, and I'm eating oats. And I also stumbled upon the forum about a few minutes ago.

And damn, are you guys idiots.

It seems as if you treat "picking up" as if it were a game with actual rules. You have cutesy little guides and tricks and tips. It's pathetic, to be honest. You're treating the girls in your encounters as if they were opposing kings on a chessboard, and shit, you're doing it all wrong. I read through a few threads and kept noticing guys asking for help, and why? Why do you need help?

You need help because you're treating it like a game, whose rules escape your grasp. Imagine talking to your guy friends, it's simple, it's natural, you don't have to ask any specific "questions", no "rules" you have to play by. What you're doing by following these "guides" is simply building your library of little tricks. You're not building charisma or character, you're staying the same inexperienced asshat just as you started.

Sure, you can charm a few girls, but then what? What happens after? Will you keep asking for help from this board? Continue seeking "tips and tricks"?

And what happens when things go wrong? When your little plan falls through? Well shit, good game, I'm not sure what else to say.

Imagine a girl starts talking to you, using one of the "tricks" found on this site. How would that make you feel, about her specifically? You'd think she's boring and stale, she can't think of anything on her own.

Want to be an actual Pick Up Artist? Approach a girl, and talk to her. Just fucking talk. You don't want her number. You don't want anything from her. You're bored, and you're looking for someone to talk to. There are no secret formulas, there are no short cuts, the only way you're ever going to truly charm a girl is by being yourself, being funny and being creative, not a text document stored on your computer with written instructions. Be outgoing, be everything you ever wanted to be.

My suggestion? Clear your mind from all this bullshit. You don't have to make an entrance by saying hello, if the occasion occurs, why not stick a rose between your teeth and then approach? Or does that go against your little guides? It's unorthodox, sure is, but you can bet your sweet ass that the girl you're talking to will be generally interested in what you have to say. I'm not going to tell you to be confident, because you can't "be confident". Confidence is a false feeling, it's the opposite feeling of fear. When you first began, you were filled with fear, and once you got used to approaching girls more and more, your fear goes down. Confidence does not exist, you're simply shrinking your fear. And what are you afraid of really, rejection? And what if she does reject you, is that it? Is it over? Why not play around with it, see what happens.

/rant over/

I'm not going to lie , this post was a bit of an eye opener for me. To be blunt , I never really completely agreed with a lot of the information I've read on this site. I joined this site and grade 11 and I probably lost my fair share of women especially around that age group by trying to be that stern PUA guy that never went out of his way for a girl and never even went as far as complimenting a girl .
Everything had to be so structured , I couldn't relax and connect with girls on a personal level. I remember in grade 12 when a girl I extremely liked invited me to a hockey game . I , being a hockey player and a fan for my entire life couldn't let her know I actual enjoyed her company and open up to her , which would have been easy because I could have talked about the sport for along as I want. Instead , I had to act so nonchalant about everything ; a million things running through my head DHV , KINO , etc until eventually I basically forgot what I was doing.

I think this site can be cancer for a lot of guys . You begin to see girls as such opponents and quests that need to be conquered . Adds a tone of pressure on to guys and makes the entire process very unnatural due to the tactics and advice being so unpractical and sometimes just plain bizarre . You have to remember girls are just as human as you are , meaning she's either feeling you or not . A line or any aspect of this site , isn't going to change her opinion magically . Just think , what if a girl used a line similar on you .would you suddenly be in love ? No , because as humans we don't work that way. Be a genuine dude , treat girls naturally with respect and escape all encounters with your dignity .

Yes, it's just talking to girls, I agree. The thing is, not everybody can do that at first, they need a crutch at first, that's what routines are for. But there is much more advice on here besides just picking up girls, most of it is about how to become a better, wholesome, more passionate, more successful person in general. That's what I like about this site

_________________
rAFC and yes, I'm a chick.

I have bursts of being a lady, but it doesn't last long.

Hey guys.

Ok, a lot of things to say here.

@7evenE1even: I agree largely.

Just what you say about confidence is.. strange. Confidence is a bit the opposite of fear, and is a constance. Fear will always be there, but the same is true for confidence. In anybodies life there are certain aspects they are confident about and there are aspects they are afraid of. Being confident towards women is not something that should be turned on like a radio. It is a goal to work to, it means conquering fears and experiencing success.

In general:

yeah, most of the things are over analysed. Building attraction, like you would build IKEA furnature, DHV (wtf) and never express your feelings bla bla bla. The structure, the phases of attaction(??), in other words, you are right about that.

There shouldnt be any rules. You should see them more as guidelines. You cant deny that there are certain flows in human interaction. You cant deny that some people just are socially retarded. And you certainly cant deny that action from person will turn into reaction from the other.

These hints and tips seem obvious for some, but there are a lot of others who just dont see it. Some guys send 100 text messages in one hour, usually ending with: why dont you send back? They dont realize how fucking annoying it is for the girl. You cant deny that there are people who say: be natural around a girl? Conquer my fears? But how? So some of these "rules, routines or whatever" are just things to hold on too, training wheels sort of speak.

Even more: you cant deny that there are things you can say or do to get a certain effect. Its called manipulation. You shouldnt see girls as opponents, that is true. But sometimes it aint. Sometimes i put on my smile while i think: i am going to tear you down and make you want me. Sometimes you are successful, sometimes you aint.

The point is that most people forget indeed that they are dealing with other humans, who each will respond in a different way, and that those techniques are only tools. Its like a blacksmith with his hamer. If he doesnt see his iron change because he keeps on hitting the anvil, his hammer is worthless. (and i need to stop playing skyrim )

Cheers!

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

*sigh*

competence trumps confidence in the end

like anything else...

interpersonal communication is a skill

even for the most "naturally"-skilled individual,

it still pays to learn, study, practice...

to be good at something.

ps - if there was ever an honorable cause to study for being good at,

i think "how to deal with women" is a good one.

it's not as if this is a forum dedicated to the wasteful study of:

how to talk to ... bullfrogs

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

You're eating carbs late at night? Har har, who's the idiot now?
The problem I see with said statement is purely this. "I'm not trying to fuck my friends, especially my guy friends"
Well really, If I KNEW that what she had said was infact a line or 'trick' as you so call it, from this site or anything similar, I would actually feel quite good, knowing that she was into me.
I like this, cause it's true. That's what 'The Game' is all about, creating and defining yourself into the best version of yourself that is possible. Everyone and every situation is different, which is why there is not one single magic formula that will work every time.


The 'tips and tricks' on here are designed to give guys with no idea a head start, to 'reduce their fear' as you put it, until they can work out their own rhythm and are content with their ability to communicate effectively with women.


How did you come by this site anyway? Just curious..

They're just training wheels man. No where will you read that you need to continue this lifestyle, or even completely adopt it throughout your entire love life. You learn how to bike, then you take them off and do things on your own. That's ENTIRELY it.
Unfortunately, for most of us on this forum, we're either NEW to the idea of pick up, or we're still in the beginning stages, reluctant to take off those wheels.

That's what separates the talented from the untalented.

When you said "tips and tricks", I can maybe assume you were talking about my post. My Bump was not to be taken literal, it was only a bump. I just added 'tips and tricks' implying there were any, such as a code book from a video game.

But if I were to name any tips and tricks, it would be Palm reading, magic, etc. I've done a few of these things before and it has worked wonders. I would not have done magic in front of a girl without this, it just wasn't in my mindset, I was not born with it. I don't think anyone is actually. Magicians CHOOSE to become magicians, they aren't born with it.

Anyways, a little off topic.

My point is, YES you correct, up to a point. Refer to the training wheels analogy for more info.

Also, are you a girl? lol.

Read all of your posts guys

I should add for reference that I'm a guy. No one told me about this board, I just heard a lot of flaming on it and though I'd search Pick Up Artist into google.

I should also add for reference, a little story of my life

I was never into girls. I never wanted a girlfriend, I never gave a shit. I was an outcast to be honest, I'd go straight home after school, occasionally going over to a friends place, but for the most part I was a shut-in. I was never outgoing.

But then, during my junior year in high school, something clicked. I didn't want to be an outcast anymore. I wanted to have friends, I wanted to have a girlfriend, I wanted to be smart, I wanted to follow my dreams, I wanted to accomplish anything and everything, and most of all, I wanted to be awesome. No one helped me in my journey, because I never asked for help. No one can help you with any situation because you know the situation better yourself. How did I learn to be a better person? Role Models. I. Had. Tons. Of. Role. Models. And I still do. I studied my friends, how they talked, what they did, what made them the center of a group, and I learned. I never asked questions, how I'd learn would be through experience or by reading from resources. An example, I realized that it's leaders who really get things done, leaders are the driving force in any community, and I wanted to be a leader. So I observed, I watched my friends, and then I asserted myself. When school group projects came up, you can be assured I took initiative. My first time as a leader? Not bad. My group mates were a little lazy, but realizing that motivation is a key factor in leadership, I pulled our group to create the best damn group project presented on the due date. It's been a year since I began learning how to be a leader, literally. And now? I have no doubt in my mind that I am an extremely capable leader, I can analyze people with accuracy, motivate with almost no effort, and manage to get people to put their 110% in anything they do. I love it. I love what I've gone through, and I love how I turned out.

What in that story relates to being a Pick Up Artist? Everything. Being a Pick Up Artist is a self-taught skill, rather, even more self taught than being a leader, because we all have our different styles. Sure, you can say that one "guide" worked for you, but it sure as hell won't work for another person, because it's a completely different situation.

I also wanted a girlfriend. I literally knew nothing about how to get a girlfriend. Never had one! I wasn't afraid of talking, talking is easy, but the approach, the approach definitely made my heart race. What did I do? The only thing I could do, procrastinate. My mind worked this out: I want a girlfriend, to get one, I should talk to a girl, get her number, hang out, and ask her out. And holy crap, was my plan shitty. But guess what, it worked.

I feel like I'm getting off topic, so I'll talk about your "tips and tricks" because I noted that it was mentioned a few times before.

Please, never ever use any of these "tips and tricks". You are completely missing the point. I've learned so much by simply, and rather *blatantly* asking a girl out. I learned that:
1. You should get to know a girl better before you ask her out
2. Make apparent to what you want, relationship/friends with benefits
3. Before you go any further, find out what does she wants
4. If she's never had a boyfriend, drop it (eheheh, seriously guys, if the girl has never had a bf, it's a lost cause, well, most of the time)
5. Don't ask a girl out (goes against the first thing I stated right? well, I've learned that kissing a girl is a shit ton more effective than simple words, why? the next number explains that)
6. Girls don't know what they want (goes against the third rule, but the third rule really only applies to relationships/friends with benefits. If you're hanging out with a girl and you ask her if she likes you, even though you got a good vibe from her, chances are she'll say she doesn't know. Well, fuck that. Women need a leader, at this point, you start kissing her, even if she *doesn't know*. Girls look for guys who lead, because they know exactly what to do)
7. Girls look out for leaders

There's a lot more, that's just what I could think of off the top of my head. I could of never learned any of this if I took someone's advice. Because it's not my own instinct, I can't create my own conclusion, someone else is doing it for me, someone else is giving me a short cut. Want to be a real Pick Up Artist? Wake up tomorrow and say to yourself "I'm gonna talk to every girl I see today, just for the hell of it, I have no idea what I'm gonna say, no idea what I'll do, and I really don't give a flying fuck, I'm tired of being a sheltered pussy".

Want to know how easy it is to pick up a girl? I see a girl I like, I walk up to her, and I talk. I don't know or plan out what I say, as long as it's interesting and she's smiling. I literally do this with ease, and at some point, I don't even need to try because she's so caught up into it she's the one picking me up.

Here's a weird little metaphor I just thought up of. Video game. Boss fight. Your avatar is level 20, capable of taking on the boss. Or your avatar is level 1 with magical trinkets, also capable of taking on the boss. Who's the better avatar, the one who's level 20 or level 1? And FYI, magical trinkets run out

Couldnt really be bothered reading or paying attention to a whole thread of flaming... but this caught my eye.
??
LOL so you give your own little tips and tricks............

of which, all of them are completely generic and 99% of men already do this.

*claps all round for you sir*

_________________
I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt undoubtedly, and all those who look down on me I'm tearin down your balcony, no if ands or buts, don't try to ask him why or how can he

I agree totally. Talk to 20 women a day minimum.

Just make sure you keep the conversation totally non-sexual and non-relationship oriented until you are sure you are comfortable with them. Don't get carried away like I did 3 days ago.

Hi folks.

Look, no matter how you see this thread, he does make a point about some of the "strategies". i think i already told it before. Some of those really are shitty. Some of those terms just arent... logical.

he is right in what he says, its true. For him. But i do think the generalization is wrong. As he said, we are all different people, what works for one doesnt work for another. But the same is true for the 'tips' you write, 7evenE1even.
With this i absolutely dont agree: this is bullshit. You 'go out on a date' so you can get to know her. I dont have a clue when i should get to know her otherwise. I am not going to school, i dont frequent certain bars or clubs, and at work, going on lunch together... that is pretty much a date to me. And yeah, i do use the word date. Get together, what ever the fuck.

Pick up should be self improvement. I honestly dont care how you do it. But fact is that it is different for each and everyone. And another fact is that some of the methodologies are plain shit.

cheers

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

I probably should of said that this is what works for me, and not for others. We all have our different strategies, stop asking others for theirs and get out their and make your own.

Yup. So we're all the same, then.

Some people figured out how to do it on their own, exactly how you did, and decided "Hey, I understand this well, let me share it" and they did. Rather than observe the role models in their own life, frustrated guys now have the option to find more helpful role models on the internet.

But the truth that you're arguing, that you think the PUA community doesn't see, is that you need to get out and find it for yourself. Absolutely, I agree, and I think anyone who has been successful agrees. Some people use routines to start off, I never have, but you need to create your own path. Some people will find this out, many won't. Those who do, can make a change, those who don't... well, they have the knowledge, and an added pressure to get women. They may never learn, but they could choose to...

I like this forum's "smell". it reeks of insecurity and stress, which reminds me of my younger days. generally, my way of getting a girl was to pick one and go for it, letting nearly instant one-itis give me the momentum needed, which is just about the most stupid thing to do. but man,.. does that give the experience more flavor!
I agree with the initial post in quite a few points. but P.U.Arts is like martial arts, you learn the forms and when needed you can perform them with ease like a kata, which is not a bad thing at all for starters..even if you're already good at getting a girl, knowledge about the PUA game helps fine-tune your "skills" and more...