Hey everyone, first post here...I'll apologize upfront for the length, but need some advice...

I don't normally come on to these sites as I am a very educated and knowledgeable guy when it comes to the artistry of talking to and attracting women, but I have an on-going situation I thought some more experienced people may lend some insight to. It's quite a long process, I'll try to make it as short as possible.

The Beginning (roughly 2 months ago)

So I met a very attractive girl at my favorite bar, she's a server. First interaction was a long conversation on one of her off nights(2 1/2 hours plus) felt a vibe, did not ask for her number on the first night. 2 days later, I was back, she was working...made an aggressive move, called her over to sit next to me, asked for her number which she gave to me, including full first/last name in my phone, also added her on FB.

Began introductory texting, humor filled banter and immediately noticed that text responses were very delayed, sometimes a day in between. Made references to "hanging out" but didn't get concrete response. I gave it several days of attempting to communicate with her when I decided to move-on due to what was obviously a lack of interest.

Flash forward - As time went by, due to the fact that this is a bar I frequent quite a bit, we would still see each other, she would smile, we'd still talk/laugh, however my demeaner was now that of not caring so much about pursuing her, almost treating her as if she was just another server. I went about my normal business, being funny on facebook, exhibiting my happy-go-lucky personality around others when i'd see her at work, and generally not thinking about picking her up.

Of course, after this had gone on for several weeks, she all of a sudden started to comment on my status' quite frequently, like pictures I posted, and generally be quite a staple in my FB notifications box. I would also start getting texts from her here and there, nothing worth mentioning, but un-solicited texts none-the-less.

Flash forward to a couple nights ago, I was in the area coming from another bar, so as I do pretty frequently, I stopped in for a late night beer. She was there around closing time with all the other employees. I politely smile, said how are you, and just sort of went about my business. Like clockwork, 10 minutes after I left I got a text from her saying "If you're not doing anything tommorow, you need to come to our company party..." which proceeded to turn into about a 2 hour long text convo, there were several indicators that she was interested via her dialougue, and basically had she not "invited" me to this party, I would not have known it was happening.

Present:

I go to the party after a prior obligation. Before arriving, I was getting texts from her "where are you!??" Had a great time, talked to her a bunch, we had some decent one on one time, every sign was pointing to a great deal of interest (smiling, laughing, touching me subtly often, hair twirling..etc) several friends of mine commented that she was crushing on me. Toward the end of the night, we were sitting at a table together, she moved from sitting accross from me, to right next to me. Talked for about an hour alone, when others joined us at the table. She was drinking quite a bit and was not going to drive home. Towards the end of the night, I overhear her and a fellow worker talking about some guy she had met, picking her up and whether or not she wanted to "go there." I also overheard her talking about his characteristics, he's cool, laid back etc. At first I thought it was just random banter, but it continued. Majorly turned me off of the whole situation, I had already brushed this girl off once due to confusing signals and a seeming lack of interest. So I got up, paid my tab, went to the bathroom. When I returned from the bathroom, she wasn't at the table (no doubt out with other girls in the back smoking) so I politely said goodbye to others at the table, the bartender and left, without going to look for her.

Moral of the story:

I'm now completely confused. Is she worth it? Sure, awesome personality, really attractive, and generally cool person. For the life of me though, it's driving me nuts. I've never really had this much of an issue diagnosing what's happening here.
Signs have seemed to point to interested, and then something will happen that will spin the whole thing around for me such as the example above. I've played it very cool up till' now, and it's worked wonders for me. Genuinely not caring has completely turned the whole thing around from the beginning, but now I'm stuck.

Should I text her today and say something along the lines of "Hey sorry I didn't see you when I left last night, thanks for getting me into the party it was a lot of fun, have a great Christmas!"

or

Nothing at all...again.

Sorry for the length, this has been going on for 2 months+

My friend you are caught in a zone similar to the "friend zone" but instead of the friend zone you are in the " Guy at my Work zone" or cute customer, but still seen as a "customer" none the less.

The only way you will be able to pursue this woman properly and get results is to either get her fired, or stop frequenting the place.

Regardless of how attractive, charming and witty you are, You are stuck in this status. Her spontaneous action to contact you and acknowledge you could simply be due to her co-workers bringing you up or showing interest themselves.

When it comes to waitresses and bartenders, they will rarely ever date regular customers and even in the rarity when they do, it tends to be very secretive.

So you have to ask yourself, how bad do you want to hook up with this girl? Enough to stop going to this bar?

I have owned and operated a night club for a few years in the past. Trust me on this one. I have seen this many many times.

Text her thanking her for the invite etc etc. But be sure to make your next text or invite to have nothing to do with her work place.

_________________
Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

It is a waitress/bartenders natural duty to be flirtatious with customers ( to obtain good tips) that being said, if she started to date you and you frequent the place, it would make her uncomfortable with earning her wages( flirting with other customers..etc etc)

If you want to know truly if she is interested in you, stop going to that bar and ask her on a date. You will know right then and there.

Good luck.

Fortune Favors the Bold.

_________________
Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

On the other hand... I never tip my friends, I think it's disrespectfull and false.

Maybe it's just me but I don't enjoy being treated friendly/unprofessional by waitresses and I find it very hard to tip them after. I don't like buying friendship and if it's does happen I'd rather do it overtly.

Hey guys...I understand your points, and though they can be valid...I have dated several girls in the hospitality business whom I've met via this sort of interaction, so I'd really like to take that off the table...that's not the case here, as bad as I'd like it to be because it'd be a simpler answer..

I did not meet this girl on the clock, matter of fact, she's never once waited on me. This is a music venue not a typical bar, I know a lot of people in there and have been going there long before she came along. I met her on one of her off nights when she was sitting at the bar like any other patron, and truth be told, didn't even know she worked there until later on.

If this was a typical "friendly server" situation, I don't think she would have gone out of her way to invite me to a strictly company Christmas party, if she had zero interest why would she even bother? It's also not like she showed up with any outside friends or another guy, plus the conversation that transpired prior to this whole thing was laced with all kind of indications that she was interested. She only invited me, it's not like a group text went out to her favorite patrons. What say you if we took the patron/server thing off the table?

I've actually worked as and with server/bartenders many times in the past, so I understand it's a servers/bartenders duty to be polite, friendly, even flirty for the most part, but usually that does not extend beyond the norm, in this case inviting somebody to a party when you're not even working, it could have easily just gone un-mentioned, and it would have been "see ya next time" sort of deal. I've been there many many times.

I'm now starting to wonder, if it was possible that there is a mild chance she could have been softly chatting with her friend next to her about the potential of me taking her home based on how the night was going (you would have had to hear the dialogue) which if that was the case, I guess I made a major mistake leaving, allthough there was no reason for me to believe that would be an option. Truth be told, I liked this girl more than a hook-up anyway, and don't know if I'd even want someone willing to go home with you that easy, not after past experiences.

If she was discussing another guy, it was a simple boundary she crossed, whether she knew I could hear or not, I don't have time for that BS and any mention of any other guy is a write off in my book.

I decided to text her the next day just to say thanks so much for the invite, I had a blast, didn't see you when I left but had a great time, have a great Christmas. Not like this was an actual date, it was just a hang...I don't think leaving was that big of a deal, and she wasn't around when I left...not going to go sniffing her out like a puppy dog.

I still haven't heard back from her. Puzzling, as two days before we were all chatty, now no answer? I thought man, If I got up and left and she wanted me to take her home, there goes that opportunity. However do I care? Not really. I actually care more about assessing this situation from a psychological standpoint.

I've also developed a strong conviction about girls that make me feel un-sure of myself, give me the gut instinct that something isn't right, or are playing games, should go over to the throw away column of my phone book anyway.

So I skimmed your post and its cool your looking for a psychological perspective. I too worked in the restuant biz for a very long time and something to note is how close everyone is. If she had gone home with you and she is a cute girl most people at her work would know about it. This is a no no…makes her look bad. (to a degree right no set rule)

But I think it sounds like she was interested and wanted to show you off in a sense. So she gives you all these signs then starts talking about another guy in your proximity? She knows what shes doing shes trying to get validation from you.

By giving you a ton of attention them removing it she is trying to see how you will react.

Solution: For future situations similar in nature try interacting more with the people there. She knows your there to get with her on her turf. (so your already at a disadvantage) Be more social talk to more women there hell talk to guys and shoot the shit. She knows your interested…well get other women interested also.

Show that you cant hold up your own in a new place without help. Convay your personality buddy and have a good time! In regards to clean up crew….well Im no good in that area. I say if they don’t like me then ill look for another one.

Seaddict911 also had some good things to say..

OH something to remember!!! DON’T FORGET THIS ONE. There are no rules BUT keep this in mind! DON’T MEET THEM. Don’t do it. They have control over the social situation. Think about.. if you had a first time meet up with her and her gfs your fucked. Try getting her away from them and maybe one other guy. If you like her wait. Play it cool and don’t jump at the first opportunity to hangout. Her Christmas party in some cases was great right? I know I would have thought…sweeeet we can be drunk and ill take her home. Easy and done right? Lol well not this time I guess.

Meet them on your terms.

Hey man, thanks so much for replying back with something with a positive slant. A lot of these things I'm aware of but to hear them again, sort of reaffirms them. She's actually attempted to coax me out to a bar with her friends before, I've never taken the bait. I've read so many books on this out of curiosity and am pretty in-tune with the make her come to you, or out of her comfort zone rule, it's all valid and so true.

Following your advice, I was mingling with other people. I was actually being a total charmer befriending her friends boyfriend, he was actually a cool cat. That's how her side conversation started in the first place.

There was definitely interest Allthough I'm not sure how great. She is an "everyone loves her girl" not ur typical Saturday night approach type, which makes it tougher. , harder to read, and in turn more desirable to me. Very sharp girl.

The more I think about it the more I realize that leaving was not the end of the world. I treated it as any other night I'd b there , and chose to leave when I wanted to . Prior to me leaving there was no discussion of me giving her a ride so the way I see it is, F it, she had every chance to make it clear, she can blame her friends at work for crashing our alone time, I had better things to do, I'll see her when I see her, in the mean time I keep hunting. If somewhere down the line she wants to stop playing games and go out for real, cool ...if not someone else will. She can find someone in the meantime guarantee he won't have nearly as much to offer as I do.

No harm no foul, it's all a learning experience with different types to me.

Thanks guys

great mind set man...yeah it sucks when we meet one that kind of throws us. But really I guess thats why were are all here to get women like that. At least I know Im in the same boat... there is soo much to learn I continue to forget and recall things.

You seem to be an intelligent man, what i do not understand is how or why you have gone through such lengths ( analyzing/researching) to answer such a simple question.

Is she into you?

Have you actually asked her out on a date?

If you haven't, i suggest you try that...lol If she say's yes, you will have tons of new material (from the date) to over analyze

I also suggest you do it as far away from that place as possible, make it part of the offer somewhere different( out of town even better)

_________________
Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

Haha, I know it seems dumb, and I am an intelligent young guy.

I'm actually a working musician, so I'm constantly on the road or tied up with rehearsals, gigs etc. up till' now I've had no real interest in getting into a relationship, it's been casual flings and random scattered one nighters, primarily by choice.

Why do I over-analyze? Over the years I've accepted I'm crazy in-tune with what's around me. Some call it over analyzing, I call it being aware, it's who I am and it's what I do, it's how I educate myself.

Have I point blank asked her on a date? No...my interactions with this particular girl have been fairly limited, and truthfully I don't know if I care enough about it given the mixed signals and games to even bother. It was just this particular instance that intrigued me.

I'll say it again, I appreciate all of your input, it's all valid and legit. I'm just at the point where I'm gonna go back to not really caring and see what happens. She didn't have the common courtesy to reply to a simple " thank you, have a nice Christmas" text, to me that speaks volumes. It is what it is.

I have always been an extremely aware person my entire life, especially when it comes to women. I will know within one or two encounters ( texts, phone, person to person contact) if a woman is interested in me enough to pursue. For someone that is seemingly so aware, why is it that you are so confused?

I think maybe you are afraid of the truth, there is such a simple way to find the answer, yet you hesitate.

Why, I ask? What are you afraid of? you claim to not really care, yet you write a full page with an in-depth analysis, seeking advice.

Then when you get it, you politely dismiss it.

The correct answer is not always going to be the one you want to hear.


So i will say this one last time, Present yourself to her, tell her you are into her and you would like take her out.

Her response will tell it all, end of confusion.

It's been over two months, its not rocket science.

Step up or move on.

_________________
Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.