How To Get Out of The Friend Zone



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:50 pm 
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We have all heard those dreaded four words once in our lives haven't we?

"Let's just be friends..."
.
"umm... let's not."

This will be a simplistic post that even a 6th grader can understand.

Picture a venn diagram. With the comfort category on the left, and the attraction category on the right. And the relationship category in the middle.
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What is comfort? Comfort is having trust, rapport, and commonalities between a male and a female. However, if you're categorized as only in the comfort category, you are viewed as nothing more than a friend.

I met this girl my freshmen year in high school. I did not consider her attractive at the time. Anyways I moved away after my sophomore year and when I came back she was simply fucking stunning. Her hair was gorgeous, and her butt... omgosh. I got her number and we began to catch up. I developed a lot of comfort between us. I knew everything about her, she knew everything about me. I liked her... A LOT. Now this is during a time before I discovered the PUA community, and I was a complete chode, anyways...

I manned up and asked her on a date. I was hoping and praying she would say yes. A part of me guaranteed myself she would, because why wouldn't she? We had so much comfort, we can easily be with each other and talk for hours on end. Guess what? She flaked.I continued to invite her out to places. She continues to flake. Why was she flaking? Because there was no attraction. I never expressed myself in an attractive way around her. I was never fun and flirty towards her, in her eyes I was someone she could trust and go to if she needed help, not someone she knew she would have fun with.

I was never able to develop a relationship because I was all the way in the comfort category, and there was no attraction to help balance myself into the relationship category.

Okay what happens next was I told her that I liked her. She did not directly say let's just be friends. But she put me down in the nicest way possible. She said that I was a guy that she could rely on, and she just doesn't see me that way.

THERE WAS NO ATTRACTION!!! ONLY COMFORT.

(I ended up f-closing this girl) I will continue the story in a bit.

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The definition of attraction is a bit more in depth...

1. Passive and long term attraction, which is based mostly on long term or inherent values, and cannot be easily changed.

Physical beauty (genetics: symmetry, face, body, height)
Wealth and influence of financial resources towards social life
Social proof dynamics and social circle foundation/connections
Personal reputation from fame, family lineage or other “social networks”

2. Middle of the spectrum, things you can convey without being direct.

Pre-selection by other women
Body language and movement
Eye Contact
Voice volume and tonality
Avatar / Style

3. Immediate-based attraction

Sense of humor and wittiness (Cocky and Funny)
Fun vibe
Escalating

If you just have attraction, you are viewed as a player. You're pre selected by other women, you're flirty, and you can game like no other. Girls are are attracted to guys with high social value, if they can see that you get attention from other girls, they will wonder what's up and hop in on the band wagon.

But some girls have a hard time trusting players. They become hesitant to move the relationship to the next level, because there is no level of comfort established between the girl and the guy. The girl is a bit afraid to advance because she feels like she might just be used, she will end up with a lot of pain.

Here's a story. I walked into a party, immediately a dozen or so people are there to greet me, some even said "the party just started now!" What I noticed was that everyone who came after me received no such greeting. Here at this party I was already established as a high value guy and this made establishing attraction much easier for me. Ten minutes later after I settled in and talked to my friends; I noticed a beautiful brunette sitting on the couch talking to one of my friends. I went up and introduced myself and right off the bat we were fun and flirty. I was joking around, and expressing a fun and enthusiastic vibe the entire time. I got her number and through a span of four months we went out on dates plenty of times. I was ready to get into an LTR. Then she drops a bomb. "I don't think I want a boyfriend right now." Why not I replied? "I have a hard time trusting you, I'm afraid I might get seriously hurt if we get into a relationship."

Why did she not want to get into an LTR with me? Because there was no comfort. I was all the way in the attraction category. I was always fooling around, making her laugh, and flirting. While this is all good, I failed to establish trust and rapport. She thinks I might hurt her, but in reality I cared a lot about her. I was just foolish not to establish any comfort with her at all, which set the frame as me being the player. I am sharing this story because you can still not get anywhere relationship wise if all you have is attraction.
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Now let me remind you all that some guys with just comfort will have relationships. And some guys with just attraction will have relationships. It happens, but not often. Guys with just comfort usually have longer relationships, but the let down is heart breaking. Guys with just attraction will tend to have shorter relationships.


YOU NEED TO HAVE AN EQUILIBRIUM OF BOTH COMFORT AND ATTRACTION TO BE IN THE MIDDLE.

How do you do this? If you're all the way in the comfort category, you need to express and establish yourself as an attractive man. You need to be fun and flirty towards the girl. You need to start with light and friendly kino, then escalate towards more heavy stuff as you two become more physically acceptable towards each other. To convey attractiveness there are plenty of ways, you can physically make yourself more attractive. Go to the gym, get new clothes, a nice haircut, cologne. While you generate attraction, be sure to also maintain the comfort. BUT NOT AS MUCH. Because she already knows that you can be serious, that she can rely on you. She is yet to see your attractive, fun and flirty side.

If you're all the way in the attraction category you need to develop comfort. How do you do this? Be serious at times, get to ACTUALLY know her. Knowing her full name, her family, her pet dog is not establishing comfort. Knowing her aspirations, her fears, her goals, her motivations, will establish comfort. You need to convey that you are someone that she can trust and that you are not just a player that she assumes will break her heart. Take the time to sit down with her, and talk. You don't have to be fun and flirty all the time. Why? Because she already knows that part of you, she doesn't know that you actually care, and you can be serious, and you can be relied upon.

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Story time.

All I had was comfort, there was no attraction. As I mentioned early, I discovered PUA around the time the brunette with the nice butt nicely let me down. I found out how to convey attractiveness. What was the first thing I did? I froze her out. We would always text every single day. This triggered an anomaly in her life. She was so use to texting me every day that she became upset when I didn't text her, and upset when she texted me and I showed no interest. I officially let the girl out of my life.

To get the girl, you have to risk losing the girl.

I was out gaming chicks hard, getting numbers, getting dates, my abundance was around 5-6 girls who on any given weekend I can go out with. I was always tagged in pictures on facebook with a bunch of girls. This conveyed that I was a high value guy who girls seeked attention from. We were at a football game, I went with two girls who were pretty attractive. Guess who was sitting in the stands? That girl who let me down. Upon walking up the bleachers I was greeted by around ten people, both guys and girls. This conveyed I had a big social circle, which establishes me as a high value guy. Oh I did mention that I was with two cute girls, so this showed that I was pre selected, and girls were after me.

During the summer when there was no school, three of my other buddies and I got a gym membership and we went to the gym for five hours every single day. I am not lying when I say this. The first hour we played basketball (we're varsity basketball players), the second hour we swam. The third hour we worked out a muscle group. The fourth hour we ate. The fifth hour we did abs, and went home. Sometimes we would do running instead of swimming, it all depended on the weather. But anyways, I was A LOT bigger than I was during the school year. My chest popped out, my biceps were bigger, my shoulders were broad, and I had a four pack (I'm still trying to get that six pack, dayum is it hard).

The brunette greeted me, immediately I left the two chicks and went up to her and gave her a hug and a kiss on the cheek. I was being fun and flirty right off the bat, with lots of kino. I could tell she was checking me out, she mentioned that I had a sexy tan, and that I looked a lot bigger than before. (For people who are curious, I am Asian, 6 foot, 185 pounds). After 5 minutes of playing around in the bleachers I left to go sit with the girls I came with to the football game. During this time I was flirting with both the girls, and I would always glance over to the brunette and she would look at me and we would both hold eye contact that suggested that we wanted each other.

She texted me the same night wanting to hang out with me next weekend. I was finally in. We went mini golfing, and I was being fun and flirty the whole time. While I developed attraction, I quicky moved from the comfort category towards the middle.

We ended up going out for three months, I F-closed her and that butt three weeks after mini golf. If you're curious as to why we broke up, then I'll gladly share. I was just too busy, I wanted time for myself to enjoy and relax, I wanted time with my best friends (I did not hang out with them as much while I was dating this girl, bros before hoes!!)

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The brunette at the party, I'll call her K so you don't mix her up with the other brunette.

As mentioned early, the only thing I established was attraction. I was into PUA big time, but I never realized that comfort was really important. I played the books correctly, I attracted K. We did not go to the same schools, and she was a mormon. K was just 16, I was just 17. According to her religion, she is not allowed to go out on dates until she turns 16. And when she does go on dates it's recommended that she goes out on group dates, or invite the guy over to spend time with her family so that they can closely monitor me. K broke all her religious codes just to spend time with me. Attraction was off the charts. I k-closed her on a sunday (my first kiss, her first kiss). Mormons are suppose to stay home and spend time with their families on Sunday. We went out in her beamer and I still was the same fun and flirty guy. We still went out on dates plenty of times. One night I was struck by her words. We both love to write. She's writing a book. I have my own blog for the Lakers.

I asked her in a joking way, "hey write my college essay for me, it'll be the best thing you will have ever written because it's about me!

K started laughing and that smile of hers... makes me just want to grab her and kiss her in front of everyone. "Sorry, but I know nothing about you! Plus that would be cheating!"

I never dissect her words in the moment. BUT WHAT THE FUCK? We've been on over twenty dates through a span of four months and she knew nothing about me? This struck a tingle in my body. This made my realized why she said she didn't want a boyfriend earlier in our 'relationship.' There was no comfort. There was no trust. She hardly knew who I was. How can she rely on me if I all have is attraction and no comfort?

I went home a bit saddened, but I held my chin up. I made a vow to establish comfort between us. I've never liked a girl this much before in my life. I don't care if I can't fuck her because she's mormon. I actually wouldn't want to go that far because I respect her religious views, and I do not want to put a burden of guilt on her because she broke a very serious rule. We started becoming a bit more comfortable with each other, Her parents liked me and we always have great conversations, I even went as far as going to church with her. But I still haven't balanced attraction with comfort or else I would be in the middle right now. It's getting better, she's getting to ACTUALLY know me more. I'm working on this girl, this is an unsolved process that I know I will come out on top of.

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This is the end folks, I hope this enlightened some of you. I know I am going to be criticized as well. I am still very young (17), and I want to become the best person that I can be.

Remember that COMFORT = LJBF

Remember that ATTRACTION = LJBF (But in a different way)

Most importantly, remember that a balance of COMFORT + ATTRACTION = RELATIONSHIP


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:42 pm 
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Wow how has nobody responded to this post yet? This post needs to be stickied. Seriously. Great post man pretty much covers all of the friend zone questions.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am 
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Quote:
Wow how has nobody responded to this post yet? This post needs to be stickied. Seriously. Great post man pretty much covers all of the friend zone questions.
thanks man :P


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:45 am 
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Wow! Great overview on the friendzone dynamic!

I'm going to bookmark this for future reference!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:06 am 
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Also, sent you a PM! Let me know if you can help :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:45 am 
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Hey Mate,

New here and this is the first thing I've read that I feel really resonates with my current situation. Fantastic post. I feel like I'm going through something similar at the moment with a girl I've been seeing for 2and a half months.

we started off just meeting up for coffee, dinner, lunch, movie whatever and it was going great for a while. she told me that she had just broken up with her boyfriend of 2 years about a month prior to meeting me. There was huge attraction though I always had a bit of trouble just having really good conversations with her. about a month and a half of seeing her I thought I'd ask her to be with me and i got the "i don't want a boyfriend at the moment". I'm still learning the lingo so I guess I was a chode when I respected that and backed off a little. Which sort of worked for a bit but now things have gone cold.

very early in i agreed that I didn't want to rush anything and I wanted to get to know her better when we were on the verge of doing the deed. I haven't texted her in a week and a bit. Last time we spoke it wasn't that i felt like it was over between us but she was just constantly flaking on invites out. I didn't give off the impression that this made me butt hurt (it clearly did) so i just left the ball in her court. Coming up to 2 weeks and i haven't heard a thing from her.


I've spent my last 4 years being single, just having casual sex as it came along though never allow myself to become emotionally attached to these girls. I finally let my guard down on this 1 and it just tears me up on the inside thinking that it's ended without me knowing it.

for the record, we never had sex.

I really do like this girl and i just wanted some feed back on whether you guys think I should just scratch this and move on or whether there is something I can do to improve things.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:46 pm 
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My question is what one are you supposed to establish first? Attraction, or comfort.

Flirt and be funny, or try and get to know her first?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:27 pm 
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If you want to bang her attraction suffices. If you want her for long term build attraction and comfort. When you are clear in intentions it's up to her to decide what will happen.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Quote:
Hey Mate,

New here and this is the first thing I've read that I feel really resonates with my current situation. Fantastic post. I feel like I'm going through something similar at the moment with a girl I've been seeing for 2and a half months.

we started off just meeting up for coffee, dinner, lunch, movie whatever and it was going great for a while. she told me that she had just broken up with her boyfriend of 2 years about a month prior to meeting me. There was huge attraction though I always had a bit of trouble just having really good conversations with her. about a month and a half of seeing her I thought I'd ask her to be with me and i got the "i don't want a boyfriend at the moment". I'm still learning the lingo so I guess I was a chode when I respected that and backed off a little. Which sort of worked for a bit but now things have gone cold.

very early in i agreed that I didn't want to rush anything and I wanted to get to know her better when we were on the verge of doing the deed. I haven't texted her in a week and a bit. Last time we spoke it wasn't that i felt like it was over between us but she was just constantly flaking on invites out. I didn't give off the impression that this made me butt hurt (it clearly did) so i just left the ball in her court. Coming up to 2 weeks and i haven't heard a thing from her.


I've spent my last 4 years being single, just having casual sex as it came along though never allow myself to become emotionally attached to these girls. I finally let my guard down on this 1 and it just tears me up on the inside thinking that it's ended without me knowing it.

for the record, we never had sex.

I really do like this girl and i just wanted some feed back on whether you guys think I should just scratch this and move on or whether there is something I can do to improve things.
You can definitely improve things! I just need more information, like how many times you guys have gone out together, and a conversation log of her flaking.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:13 pm 
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Quote:
My question is what one are you supposed to establish first? Attraction, or comfort.

Flirt and be funny, or try and get to know her first?
My post is explaining how to get out of the friendzone. And to even be in the friendzone in the first place you have one or the other. So something is already established first.

Now when you're meeting a new chick, definitely establish attraction first. When you have attraction you can go two ways.
1. Clap her cheeks
2. Girlfriend


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:09 pm 
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Ok so we've gone on about 10 dates just here there and every where. Here's her latest flake which led me to believe shes just not interested.

Me: could use some of your brutal massage techniques right about now haha
G: haha I dont think you would be able to handle it really
Me: Try me :D you massage like a girl really. wanna come around and watch that movie tonight? x
G: Pfft as if! sorry just finished work - manager is getting really antsy about pple using phones on shift. he actually confiscated a guys phone today. makes me feel like im at school! Tonight have already got plans sorry lovely
me: your manager sounds like a super cool guy. Hey wanna come to a 21st tomorrow. There will be a jumping castle :D
G: damn that sounds like fun! wish i could but im having going away drinks with the work friends :(:( double sad face
me: haha call me sometime this weekend if you wanna hang out. Enjoy your night lady bug x

It's been 2 weeks since that last text message of mine and i've heard nothing from her.

Though over the past couple of months there was a period where we didnt even see each other for 3 weeks. Basically my friends have been telling me that I just shouldn't message her and move on but i just haven't had closure as such.

Now I feel like cause I haven't messaged her in 2 weeks shes probably thinking im just some dude with a bruised ego.

I wanna get back in touch without looking needy or desperate


I've been seeing other girls these last 2 weeks but my mind keep drifting back. I really do like this chick and I want to be with her. How would i best approach this?

Thanks for the help


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:55 am 
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Quote:
Ok so we've gone on about 10 dates just here there and every where. Here's her latest flake which led me to believe shes just not interested.

Me: could use some of your brutal massage techniques right about now haha
G: haha I dont think you would be able to handle it really
Me: Try me :D you massage like a girl really. wanna come around and watch that movie tonight? x
G: Pfft as if! sorry just finished work - manager is getting really antsy about pple using phones on shift. he actually confiscated a guys phone today. makes me feel like im at school! Tonight have already got plans sorry lovely
me: your manager sounds like a super cool guy. Hey wanna come to a 21st tomorrow. There will be a jumping castle :D
G: damn that sounds like fun! wish i could but im having going away drinks with the work friends :(:( double sad face
me: haha call me sometime this weekend if you wanna hang out. Enjoy your night lady bug x

It's been 2 weeks since that last text message of mine and i've heard nothing from her.

Though over the past couple of months there was a period where we didnt even see each other for 3 weeks. Basically my friends have been telling me that I just shouldn't message her and move on but i just haven't had closure as such.

Now I feel like cause I haven't messaged her in 2 weeks shes probably thinking im just some dude with a bruised ego.

I wanna get back in touch without looking needy or desperate


I've been seeing other girls these last 2 weeks but my mind keep drifting back. I really do like this chick and I want to be with her. How would i best approach this?

Thanks for the help
It seems like she has lost interest in you.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whenever you initiate contact with her, you're doing it to invite her out.

Which is very predictable. Girls want unpredictability. It keeps them on their toes. They wonder, "does he like me?" Right now she controls the whole frame of your relationship.

This may be a lost cause, but I suggest you text... and game her. Don't invite her out. Because you've become too predictable. Keep texting her... but don't invite her anywhere for a few weeks. Then call her one day randomly inviting her out. Keep her on her toes. Girls want what they can't have.

Also be gaming other women, so you won't feel soo attached to this one.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:38 pm 
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Quote:
Ok so we've gone on about 10 dates just here there and every where. Here's her latest flake which led me to believe shes just not interested.

Me: So I could use some of your brutal massage techniques right about now...
G: haha I dont think you would be able to handle it really
Me: Try me:P you massage like a girl really. Im gonna watch a cool film later tonight when Ive got my work finished. Get involved?
G: Pfft as if! sorry just finished work - manager is getting really antsy about pple using phones on shift. he actually confiscated a guys phone today. makes me feel like im at school! Tonight have already got plans sorry lovely
me: your manager sounds like a cool guy. I cant wait for tomorrow night, a friends 21st party its gonna be mayhem! what you upto tomorrow?
G: damn that sounds like fun! wish i could but im having going away drinks with the work friends :(:( double sad face
me: haha you should call me through the week, pretty sure im free monday and wednesday...can always try to squeeze you in :P


Mate...this is more what I would have wrote to her. Feel free anybody to critique.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok so we've gone on about 10 dates just here there and every where. Here's her latest flake which led me to believe shes just not interested.

Me: So I could use some of your brutal massage techniques right about now...
G: haha I dont think you would be able to handle it really
Me: Try me:P you massage like a girl really. Im gonna watch a cool film later tonight when Ive got my work finished. Get involved?
G: Pfft as if! sorry just finished work - manager is getting really antsy about pple using phones on shift. he actually confiscated a guys phone today. makes me feel like im at school! Tonight have already got plans sorry lovely
me: your manager sounds like a cool guy. I cant wait for tomorrow night, a friends 21st party its gonna be mayhem! what you upto tomorrow?
G: damn that sounds like fun! wish i could but im having going away drinks with the work friends :(:( double sad face
me: haha you should call me through the week, pretty sure im free monday and wednesday...can always try to squeeze you in :P


Mate...this is more what I would have wrote to her. Feel free anybody to critique.
yes yes! I love the last one, most guys don't do this. By this I mean, fitting the girl into their schedule.

Although after she couldn't go to the first invite, I wouldn't have invited her tomorrow.


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