Hey,
You have another noob to your forum, but I assure you i'm not a noob when it comes to pickup and women. Basically I felt so compelled to ask this question that I actually took the time to force my lazy ass to create an account and post. And my question is this, where exactly does the attraction come from in the direct game? Your basically throwing the woman up on her throne and then begging for attraction. I myself, am a huge believer in the indirect game, consisting of throwing negs and acting uninterested at first while I am DHV'ing. And by the time I start even communicating with her she feels as if though I have a equal if not higher S&R value than her. I just thought I would get some opinions from you Direct PUA's on how you usually go about building attraction etc. Is it kind of a Fools mate game? A hit and miss type thing where some chicks dig it others defy it?

In my own personal experience indirect works better for me. I open indirect but I'll go direct after maybe 5 minutes once some attraction has been established. That's the sweet spot for me.

I've opened direct a fair few times, sometimes got a positive response initially but never actually F-closed off a direct opener. After a lot of trial and error, and cruising around these boards, I'm pretty convinced that you have to be up there in the looks scale to pull off direct successfully. The only guys I've known who could pull of direct were all good looking.

So if you're a 8/10 or better looking, go direct, below that go indirect, that's my experience.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

yeah probably true. Well good I guess Ill get into direct game

I'm pretty much starting out so I use a lot of indirect game and some canned material. It's kind of like training wheels, I lack the confidence to go and say "Hey, I just wanted to say you look really cute..." or whatever. But I can go over and say "Hey, can I get your opinion on something..." because it's more justifiable and socially acceptable in my mind.

Tomorrow however, I am going to go out and force myself to do some direct openers and approaches.

Agreed, direct is more, direct XD
indirect your getting a girl to like your personality, direct your getting a girl to like your looks

I can go direct after 2 minutes and have success, but I can't successfully OPEN direct. The only reason I say opening direct CAN work is pure hearsay, if I was the only PUA in the world and I was writing a book, I'd say DON'T OPEN DIRECT, DON'T OPEN DIRECT, DON'T OPEN DIRECT.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

Exactly! I can understand going direct 2 minutes into it if your skilled. I just always saw the direct opener as fools mate and anyone with good skills shouldn't be throwing it all out there and hoping she feels the same way.


Fools Mate - Chess Strategy where it is possible to win in 4 moves.....But very, very unlikely and impossible against a skilled opponent.

you see, there are some misconseptions, you are assuming that looks play no part in female mating choice, this is not true, just like us, more or less every girl has a line of physically acceptable and physically not acceptable, some guys can get laid, purely based on looks, they have girls that will actually just approach them, and the girl escalates to sex, or just asks for sex, looks do infact play a role in female choice,

how ever, don't expect to be getting high value women, without compliance and tension, even with model good looks,

more or less a girl will know if she would sleep with you, within 30 seconds of seeing you, based off the way you hold/carry yourself and the way you look, they are very intune to bodylanguage and subcommunication, after the first impression if she speaks to you, you are good enough, and at that point it is basicly running game until the close (not doing something stupid and cock blocking yourself)

direct game just weeds out the wastes of time, a girl is forced to just give you a yes you cross that line, or a no you don't cross that line, the only problem is it is more based on the looks then the personality, and sometimes if you go indirect, and you have really tight game, you can get a girl to chase your approval until she admires you to the point where she is in love, and this can allow her to shift that line slightly, but don't buy into that too much, my experience with direct game and indirect, is indirect is just a big waste of time, and a bunch of guys that hate rejection and have to just protect their ego's, direct you can just walk up get a yes or no, move on fast, and get solid leads that you know are interested in you sexually, you just have to keep their interest and not blow it

but you need the right mind set, you are expressing you intent, not trying to win her over with a compliment, always assume attraction, the problem with most guys is they think that the girl is higher value, if you can't compliment them or raise their value, and all you can do is lower their value, this is assuming allways that she is higher value

Lets say my value is a 5/10 purely based on first impressions, I go in direct and my value is still 5/10. But if I go indirect, with solid game I can raise my value to 7/10 within minutes, and now that my value is 7/10, THEN go direct. Much better chance of success. And it only takes a matter of minutes and you'll get way more yes's than you would opening direct.

- Go indirect
- Raise value as much as you can in 2 - 5 minutes
- Go direct

That's my formula. Fuck opening direct, why not spend a few minutes raising your value and get WAY more yes's.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

my perspective is, go indirect, get more numbers, more friends, numbers more likely to be waste of time
go direct, get less numbers, more rejections, but numbers are more likely to lead to something

in the time it takes to build attraction, with one girl, you could have moved onto 5 others directly and found a girl that allready feels it for you and closed

the only difference is one way, you don't get rejected and your ego feels safe, and the other way, you have to deal with getting told, no your not good enough for me (but seriously who cares what someone who doesn't know you thinks)

Direct game works. The problem is most guys go about it wrong or don't know how to go about it. Direct game isn't easy. It takes more confidence to pull off than indirect game. You also have to be able to deliver things solid as well and know what words to use with what girls.

There is nothing wrong going up to a girl and telling her she has nice cleavage and then starting a conversation as to whom wants green eggs and ham. The thing is when you tell how attractive her cleavage is you can't be like OMG!! your cleavage is like soooo hot!!!!!. Just say it as if you are telling her she has a nice dress but nice cleavage instead. She already knows your attracted to her or else you would never had approached her in the first place.

This is probably really solid advice. But remember, looks isn't just about what you've got naturally. Women take lots of things into consideration with "looks". They will consider your status, how expensive your clothes look, if you're famous, if they're drunk, if you look like a father figure in their life is big for some girls. So remember, just like for us, one girls 8 is another girls 4. You've probably got a swing of about 3 points of an out of 10 scale with girls.

My mate is, well how should I put it, hideous...Or at least that's the prevailing opinion. But his ex girlfriend, super babe. She approached him in a bar one night and he didn't have to do shit. She was all over him.

Turns out her dad died when she was 15 and looked just like my mate. Obviously touched on something deep inside of her and she couldn't resist. He has no game and has never had such a babe before or since. So something to keep in mind.

I'd say go with whatever you're most comfortable with. If prerehearsing or planning indirect openers feels best for you, that's the way to go. If you're more comfortable just walking up to a girl and saying hi, go with that.

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Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

Why spend the extra time when you can cut to the chase and get to the point? You are going to get there no matter what. Why take the long route? The fact that you are worried about value means you want to protect your ego. Face it you are going to get rejected, why waste the time trying to raise your value when you can cut to the chase?

I've been in sales before and there is something is sales called "burning leads". If you're out in a big city bouncing from club to club, you can afford to burn leads, but if you're planning on staying in the one bar for a few hours, you might only have 10 or 20 leads and you can't afford to burn them off quickly. Going direct you burn too many leads, you can only go direct if you got a shitload of leads.

I'm not worried about my value at all, it's the girls that are worried about my value. I can walk up and just say "hey wanna fuck", but if I spend just 2 or 3 minutes building rapport, negging, kino escalating, I've increased my value in her eyes and THEN say "wanna fuck", I'm coming from a much stronger position.

You don't get telemarkers call you up and the first thing they say is "hey you wanna buy some stuff?" It doesn't work, you gotta be more calculating.

I'm not saying going direct doesn't work, but I'm not convinced at all that it is the BEST way.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

I use both direct & indirect game, the key is being able to asess which one is needed at the time. If a girl is attracted to you then certain indirect stuff could bore her, or she could see it as a lack of confidence, and you may strike out!

As a general rule, if I get eye contact from a girl I will open directly. However I'm not putting her on a pedal stool or lowering my value in anyway when I do this. I basically let them know that I find them attractive in one way or another & then transition straight into qualifying questions. I still neg & false disqualify which actually raises my value becuase it shows that looks aren't the most important thing for me.

So in summation I'd say they both have there pro's & cons, and it's a good idea to be able to use both tecniques!

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Only those who risk going too far, can possibly find out how far they can actually go!