I've been reading this post for the last few days. And damn, Phangan...

I agree with all the PUA's here that said you fucked up. You're answer was damn arrogant (TOO arrogant) which is different from confident.

And you can say all you want, but what you say here also mirrors the fact that you are "ALWAYS right", and you did "NOTHING wrong". That is no confident way to do pickup. In fact, I don't think lots of guys are really willing to help you anymore here because you're just not fun to talk too. You are acting oblivious.

I'm not trying to diss you here, i'm trying to be honest, you kinda sound like a arrogant dick. And not in a good funny way. I don't think that is a good way to present yourself to women.

Oh and you got one more thing wrong, a woman doesn't have to make a shittest. If you answer to something as if it was a shittest and it isn't, you can answer it wrong anyway.

Actually I am going to back you up a little bit here but you probably still won't want to hear it.

Yes, women want power and yes they want to control you to a certain extent and yes they will blow you out if they feel you are too confident and/or too dominant.

But does that really suprise anyone?

You didn't like it when you felt some gal was ordering you around so what makes you think some gal would want to be around some guy that orders her around?

You don't like it when women fail your complience tests miserably so why should they like it when you fail their epically?

As a trend women may like to be lead in the bedroom but they still want some control and influence with someone in order to connect with someone. Women are still people and people want to work collaboratively with people towards common goals.

In any human endeavor if you want to work with someone towards a common goal you have to work collaboratively with them. Countless wars have been fought and millions of lives lost in all the revolutions, coups, and wars against slavery and bondage.

Even in the military a 5 star general is required by military courtesy and protocol to return the salute and extend basic military courtesy to the lowest private.

Yes women respect and are attracted to guys that are strong, confident, courageous and don't let people push them around but there is an upper limit to how rigid and unyielding a person can be without just coming off as an ass.

Noone likes an ass and noone wants to fuck one.

What makes it challenging is one person's confident is another person's asshole. Social intelligence and calibration are all about fitting the tone with the individual.

There is a problem here... you don't understand my point.

I was blown off within seconds. Not minutes, not after 20 minutes of being too confident and behaving like an ass.

When you are blown of within 2-10 seconds, there is no "logic" involved, only switches. Attraction switches. Basic intuition. Underlying built in auto response. Hardwired reaction. Call it however you like.

I did not display ANY personality, I did not have the time for it. I displayed only one single trait - full on confidence.

That full on confidence should have, according to the "theory" of women looking for "strong men" to AT LEAST open the sets. Meaning - they should have at least listen to what I had to say, for at least one to two minutes. But it DID NOT open the sets.

However - if I would come "shy" - they WOULD give me the 1-2 minutes.

(as proven on the previous day)

The thing is that you are going into a discussion of how people interact on the long run, in relationships, between friends etc. Sure, no one wants to be around a guy who thinks he knows best.

But this is not what happened here.

Here I was rejected based on attraction switches... an auto response. (20 times)

An auto response means that there is a hardwired underlying pattern here, and that is, a pattern of rejecting someone who is "too confident".

From here I went into a theoretical discussion / deduction on the deeper nature of women. (the true nature of women)

Do you see the difference?

It's like during sex, when I tell a girl - any girl - "do you like how I'm fucking you REAL HARD?" and they all SMILE - I deduct that in bed they like to really be dominated my me (and all other men).

I'm talking abstract notions and theory. You are answering on the day to day level.

Do you really think that I don't know that women want to be next to a normal guy who is also sometimes vulnerable?

Another problem with this thread is that it turned out to be a discussion of this shit test... which is again way way of the mark in terms of what I'm trying to discuss here.

So the point is - we have a basic - true - deep nature which is hardwired into us. You can sometimes see glimpses of this "basic nature". During sex. In the first seconds of an interaction. When we are extremely emotional and all our shields are off. When intoxicated and all inhibitions are off....

Full on confidence triggered one of these hardwired switches.

My assumption would be that it would switch on the ATTRACTION switch.

But it triggered the REJECTION switch.

Meaning that ON THE MOST BASIC LEVEL - women want someone who is NOT really confident but only SOMEWHAT confident or even LESS than that.

That's why we had to come up with "opinion openers" and all that shit.

Not because it's under the radar. But because it doesn't display too much confidence.

I AM JUST THEORIZING HERE.

Then I wrote a lot of stuff about "The way of the Superior man" which all of you totally ignored. The whole books is basically about how we men should learn to deal with women shit and power games with us.

We are having a discussion on two completely different levels here.

Ok granted, that the disussion has drifted off. But your reaction to her was still asshole-like. So maybe that's the reason why she left. You could have said things like: "ok, you wanna do a dance battle? i'll kick your ass ". That would be a fun reaction. You're reaction is more like: "you are a bitch and i won't comply to anything you say, even if it may be fun, fuck off." which she did..

You have a better understanding of the problem now?

Read the above post, I edited it and added a bunch of stuff.

I agree that I could have been playful or whatever.

I'll tell you what. I think that if I would give her the same line 20 minutes later - after she's been sufficiently attracted to me - she would have find it sexy.

But my point is - she would have find me attractive only after I would display enough "lack of confidence" traits because she is hardwired to look for guys she could control - force into long term relationship and children.

I don't know... people are so complicated, this is not a science... or it is but would require hundreds of guys running around doing hundreds of "tests".

Yea but look at MM... this guy went out for years and tested this shit. His biggest finding is not to display interest to fool the woman to think that SHE CHOOSE YOU. And David Daida says this too - choose a girl that chooses you.

RIGHT?

So what does that mean? Doesn't it mean that they live in the frame of "we are the ones making the real decisions here"? and that they never really "fall" for us, but that they DECIDE to fall for us? Did you ever hear the idea that we just fall in love with chicks but they DECIDE to full in love with us? Like they make this decision - " yea.... I'm gonna fuck this guy!" You know what I'm talking about, right? But then how does that work with the idea that women are emotional?

Oh yea, backwards rationalization.

So they are attracted emotionally and then backward rationalize - "I want to fuck that guy"

But then why doesn't full on confidence work? It should EMOTIONALLY trigger the "I'm attracted to strong men" switch?

RIGHT?

oh shit this is too complex........ I need a rest

Then tell me phangan. If it's their decision to fall for us how is it possible that women stay with abusive men? Because they are afraid? Maybe...after some months or years of abusement. But not for the first time. Or I'll tell you a concrete example which happened yesterday with one of my friends. He picked up a virgin chick. Fucked her in two weeks. Then he lost interest and just dumped her. But because he is a dick, it was not enough for him. He continued humiliating her and acting like an ass whenever he could. He told her that he's going to tell her mom that he was able to speak a whole between her legs in two weeks. (Yes...exactly with these words) He fucked another bitch and messaged her :"Oh yesterday was so good. I was fucking that german chick really hard and I was thinking about you to delay coming". Whenever he met her he was even more brutal if that is even possible. I mean she was with some AFC guy who is her friend and my friend goes :"Oh... you too such a cute couple" They are objecting but my friend doesn't care and says: "Don't worry you'll be able to fuck her in two weeks to the maximum." He's been doing this for a whole week now and yesterday he met her again and she said she wanted to be with him and try this relationship again. How in the world would this be possible if they had the decision or if they just wanted control? TELL ME! And I'll believe you.

_________________
What I like in life is nothing more but living it.

5% of people have mental issues / personality disorders, clearly both your friend and the chick fall into this category....

There is a whole spectrum of personalities but most men and women would fall into some kind of average.

But this is all good.... I want to discuss this, I'm not convinced I'm right, in fact I want to be wrong....

Well... I really don't know about the chick but my friend does not have any issues. He just doesn't care about anyone or anything but himself. And I didn't want to discuss it here but actually there were reasons for he lost interest and behaved like that with her... Usually he doesn't stomp on people like this just the ones who fucked something up for him. But then he is relentless and hell-bent. I didn't tell this because it was not the point of my post. The point was he behaving like a total ass attracted the bitch. And it's not the first one in his life who came back after things like this. For example at one time his girlfriend just went out to the toilet and by the time she came back he was already making out with another chick. He has been together with that chick 3 times since then and now the 4th one is in progress altough all the times he was being a total ass. Thing is he makes it a habit to fuck around with all of his exes... Wait maybe you're right and he has issues But don't try to tell me that all of the chicks(like 20) has too. Something keeps them coming back all the time. And it's anything but insecurity.

_________________
What I like in life is nothing more but living it.

Dude, that's a disorder.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines narcissistic personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Requires excessive admiration
Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable SPAM or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

It is also a requirement of DSM-IV that a diagnosis of any spe

Actually... it's not that bad. Only lack of empathy truly applies for him and sometimes arrogancy. But he never tried to prove anyone he is superior and he doesn't expect to be treated like that either. He expects EVERYONE to just take care of theirselves and going with this he does the same of course.

_________________
What I like in life is nothing more but living it.

OK I'm retracting this post.... for now.

The problem might have been that I was A) too direct [too much interest] B) too generic C) bad vibe. I will try this again in a few months in meanwhile go back to less directness and more fun openers.

But I still think that when you consider a lot of the other stuff (agenda providers theory / all their games lies and shit) the picture is very ugly and I still might be right on this.

In fact I forgot to mention in my post that I actually asked a girl about this and she told me that I might be right. I told her that directness and confidence doesn't work, she said "it might come off as arrogance" so I said "I think girls just look for someone who they know they can control" and then.... well.. she gave me that "who told you?" smile, and then said something like "yea, some girls are like that.

............
......
...
.

maybe we should all just ask the girls we are banging and see what they say about this.

From the upcoming book the a to z guide to dance game in the mistakes of club game:



20.- Lack of Calibration: CALIBRATE—verb: to read the verbal and nonverbal responses of a person or group and accurately deduce what they are thinking or feeling at that moment. Origin: Richard Bandler and John Grinder. I get into fights all the times in the pua forums with people that lack calibration, Dance game is totally different than regular game. In regular game you are not suppose to buy drinks or take orders from women, neither in dance game but you need to calibrate let me illustrate with couple of examples: One time I met a girl that has not gone out to a club in more than 15 years cause she was married, just got out of the relationship, was struggling financially due to the bad economy, was into me and wanted to take me home. We were having a good time, till she ask me to buy her a drink, I went into pua mode and I said: Do you know who I am I do not buy girls drinks, they buy me drinks. Then I told her to go back with her friends I had to go. In that example all I showed is that I was a jerk off and a cheap ass, when I called her 3 days later no response, and I guarantee you that night she wanted a SNL.
Another example is this one from the pua forum from a member name phangan:
"A case in point from tonight - a 3 set. HB7s. I start dancing with one of the chicks, getting closer, closer... making out. Great. We dance for maybe 3-4 minutes, making out a few more times, I make sure to always be the one who breaks it off. She puts her hand under my shirt, she looks at me all seductive... it's on. Then she takes a step back and tells me "dance!", looking at the floor in front of me as if giving me instructions to "dance for her"... so I come closer to her and say "I don't take orders from anyone" and back off a little, still inside her air space, smiling, not angry or anything... just being my cool self, the same self she was making out with 20 seconds earlier. "

According to PUA rules/textbook, what he did was to follow his teachings. But as you can tell there is a lack of calibration, all he had to do was to dance with the girl seductively, he blew up his chances.

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

Dude that's great but didn't we say that you will put it all in ONE post so we don't have to run around this place and look for bits and pieces ??? I'll freaking edit the thing myself but just post it on ONE place.

Edit - haha, now I got to the bottom of your post, you are including me in your book? That's so funny man. You know what? I might meet this girl again, I will actually ASK HER why she left, what do you say about that??? I can get her number thru a friend of a friend.

What you are saying is that I should have dance for her and make myself a BITCH and then I might have escalated and score.

NO PUSSY IS WORTH MAKING MYSELF A BITCH. NOT AN HB7 PUSSY. NOT AN HB8 PUSSY. NOT A PLAYMATE PUSSY.

I will when the book is finish, too many grammar and spelling mistakes..lol!!!!!!

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

phangan i like you and you are alpha and getting good at game, but you still have a lot to learn, also in another post i called you Tyler Dunden Junior, cause you over analyse everything, i swear, you are becoming robotic, you should become a natural.. Also from the upcoming book lol in the mistakes(another free plug):

19.- Long term memory: You have to be like an nfl quarterback after throwing an interception(Brett Farv) for example, you need short term memory, if you get rejected, or things do not go your way, you need to forget about it INMEDIATELY, and move on, but you need to go back to a confidence, fun, cool state, and not stay all night thinking: what did I do wrong? Why she diss me? Maybe I am ugly or all that shit we put in our heads. You need a strong inner game. Believe it or not the best guru for inner game in my opinion is a Pastor by the name of Joel Osteen get his books, and watch his television shows.

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction