See, that's some good advice, given I was dealing with a rational human being. She has actually insisted several times in the last few months (mainly in the beginning) that we be "just friends" but I keep pushing for sex. Do you think the "people want what they can't have" mentality would really work here? If I said "let's just be friends" she'd know it wouldn't be sincere/genuine, unless I had that "I'm already fucking someone better than you" attitude which I admit I can't project right now. She would probably agree, and proceed to move to her next best prospect. Also, as far as punishment, I don't think she REALIZES what she even did... it's like playing games with a child. Read a bit on Borderline Personality Disorder, if you're interested. I highly suspect her to be one.

I've stood my ground before that my friendship with her will be sexual, because once either of us is not single the friendship will pretty much cease. I won't want her around if I get serious with someone else, and if she gets a boyfriend she's the type to be spending all her time with him and I'd be cut out anyways. I've been well aware of this statement the entire time, and that's not going to change.

My goals right now:

1) Downgrade her - casual fuck buddy, see her maybe 1-2 times a week. We were at 4-5 for last couple months.
2) Use her for that, while I focus on other areas and new women. Regular, good sex = big plus.
3) Regain frame control of the interaction.
4) Fuck. Other. Women. Higher quality, the better.
5) Self-destruct my emotional attachment to her, while maintaining civility.

Probably because it's still fresh, but I haven't totally said to myself "she needs to be 100% gone" nor do I agree with it currently. My EMOTIONS need to be 100% gone, yes... her being 100% gone is probably the easiest way to do that, but experience is the best mentor. These last couple weeks have already changed my internal frame.

You know, tru, this probably isn't the best time to start a no-fap challenge is it? I'm in day three, and already getting this "MY GOD I NEED TO FUCK SOMETHING" mentality. I've been attacking prospects non-stop the last two days, with no luck so far.

EDIT: Probably coming off desperate. Fuck. Good thing I refuse to contact my ex.

it seems like this girl has really gotten to your heart,

that's a tough one man, if you're not dating a girl who you have those kind of expectations with for both parties to stay monogomous you should express your wishes to manage your expectations

it's sort of unfair to have a relationship with a girl under the context that you are just friends that have sex, then turn around and get all emotional when she sleeps with other guys and as a result cut off the ''friend'' part of the relationship and become neurotic about the other guy, if it really hurts you, let her know, it will work out better for the both of you that way because you can either have your expectations met, or get cut off from the source of your pain, no matter how much you value a girl and how invested she becomes, you can't just treat human beings like property, no matter how invested in a person another person becomes, they will always have free will, and it's that clingyness and that desire to restrain, control and own, that makes people feel confined and has them running for the hills, it takes great deal of value out of the relationship

just look at the contexts of your posts for yourself, you want to punish her, you want to make her do XYZ, you want to have sex with her as much as possible because you're afraid she'll leave, you want her to stay true to you but are not in that sort of relationship, you want to put down other guys around her and be rude to her friends, you are basically shooting yourself in the foot because this has become too important to you, where is the value in it for her?, what does she get?, have you even expressed these issues you are dealing with? does she even know these things bother you? have you tried to make this situation better rather then worse? it's all about the pain you feel and what you need to feel better, and how you can cause pain to make her realize how much pain you're in, but why? what will that accomplish?, how can that make this situation any better for you?

who knows if this guy is trying to be spiteful or ''out alpha'' you at all, maybe he doesn't even care and you're just giving this too much thought because you have become really attached, you're giving this girl an extreme amount of thought and attention

but why? are you in love with her? how do you feel about all this? why is it so important to you?

you might want to really take a step back here and realize all the pain and stress this seems to be causing you and try to take some time off from this girl to get your head straight to figure out what your real main objective is here in this relationship with some emotional clarity, you may be limited now by your whole ''there are no other girls'' mindset, but put yourself out there, you're not obligated to stay faithful to this one girl, you are not dating each other or doing her any favours by keeping yourself ''faithful'' when it's not expected of you, you can meet other women and if this girl is down with you, you don't have to worry she will come back when she wants to hookup again and maybe by that time you will have a few other girls you are sleeping with at the same time, that's the beauty of FWB or FB situations, if you have a lot of female friends who also have sex with you, you are not obligated to remain monogomous, and doing so for a girl when she is not doing so for you when it serves no purpose is of no value to you in that situation, strive for a win/win instead of a win/lose, you don't have to lose, she doesn't have to lose, you can both win

less stress and worrying about these things that don't matter so much, if you want a relationship make it clear, if not then don't become all emotional when the expectations that have been set out are being met and you haven't clarified your issues with them when you have issues, this just leads to passive agressive behavior, trying to act ''unphased'' when you are clearly bothered

just think of the situation, she's sleeping with multiple guys and not dating anyone, you are worried about some guy ''out alphaing'' you, when judging by her actions she just wants to have sex with multiple partners (this is what she is doing), she's having casual sex with a few boys she likes, and that sex from you is starting to become less ''casual'' because strong feelings are getting involved

I read the first page of this thread, didnt bother reading the rest. I just want to say, in response to your original problem where she flaked, you should have texted her the next day that you dont put up with that shit. Not in an angry or emotional way. All you had to say was that flaking on you without letting you know before hand and not apologizing after is not cool and its disrespectful, and that it cant happen again.
If you had texted this in a calm but firm way, you still have your manhood and you dont look like an emotional bitch. You're letting her know what you expect of your friends and that you have standards. If it happened again and she didn't let you know in advance that she's not gonna make it, you'd have to let her know next time she texts you that you cant be friends anymore due to disrespect and that you would like to get your money back ( if she still owed you).

I know this is probably no use now, but just for future reference.

First off, Visor92 gave some great advice. Sure, it doesn't help now, but in the future you can use that to nip it in the butt before it gets out of hand like this.

Second, pumpington asked some really valid questions. I suggest you write them down with their answers in your notebook you're keeping. Take the time to really search for the honest answers. Those are alot of the questions I asked myself when I went through this situation

Third, I tried the no fap thing for 8 days. I found that days 1 and 2 had no effect, days 3-7 I was so horny all the time it was just bad, and day 8 I had no increased desire. I have an insanely high sex drive as it is (cause I'm a guy) and I don't need no fapping to help me out haha. I only did it once, with no results, and never again haha. Now i just fap every 2 days or so to keep me sane, but also to keep the addiction under wraps.

Keep the updates coming man. Stay strong and do NOT contact that crazy chick!

Yeah Visor that's some good advice I wish I'd gotten earlier. I was torn between sending a text like that and straight up ignoring. I didn't know how to frame the text so I just did the latter. I wanted to confront in person, but I still haven't had the opportunity to - chances are, she's pretty much forgotten it now until I bring it up. Between that and the money, she's got bad emotions associated with me, probably a big part of the reason she's not contacting either. All in all, probably for the best. I needed a break to cool down my engine on this girl. She appeals to the "Hero Complex" that I and many guys possess... all a part of the manipulation, it seems.

Yeah, no fap was really easy day one, day two I had one or two triggers, but the end of day three I was super horny and just wanted to sarge really bad. I got to texting and probably got a little desperate, to be honest. I'm 29, and have some ED/performance anxiety type problems - I hate when I end up fapping like 3 times in one day, then a sex opportunity comes up and I can't perform to task. When I was younger (<25) I had zero problems in that department. I think I'll stick to 3-7 day breaks, because when I broke down and did it after day three it was like I just got done with some awesome sex... huge tension release. Totally worth it.

One thing for sure, I'll going to at least stay away from porn and try to fantasize about girls and shit that IS NOT this girl... because I've had some really rockin times in the sack with her. That MMF ended up being really good "spank tank" material actually... pretty sure I'm polyamorous now. Most guys wouldn't even consider sharing their girl in an MMF, but if the trust is solid I would do it again. It was really fucking hot seeing her get so much pleasure from both of us. I would advise more guys to give it a try, even if you aren't interested in bisexual activity at all. Definitely a life experience.

I filled up my schedule pretty well today. After class, I had lunch with an old HB8 friend I'm really comfortable with, we just hung out and I gave her a birthday massage. I've been sexual with her in the past, and we went to a pagan festival together over the summer so we're totally comfortable being nude around each other, but she friendzoned me because I fucked her sister (a 5 at best, drunken ONS) :/ totally not fair, I didn't know she even existed at the time because she's definitely LTR material. At 430 today, going to swing dancing with another female friend of mine, then at 8 I'm going to J's house to "chill and listen to a cd" and definitely going to try and fuck her again. So even if the ex contacts me, I'm very busy anyways.

A pseudo update. The mission to J's house was unsuccessful. I may have waited too long... there was some light kino and stuff, conversation was alright, but she kept going on about a new guy she'd just started fucking for the last two days. Just to think, if I was trying to close last week, I'd probably be okay. I started giving her a backrub, and she said "Thanks, but I'm not going to have sex with you, I'm way too sore".

Oh well.

And I sorta broke No - Contact... the fire department that I belong to is having a fundraiser breakfast tomorrow, so I sent a mass text to about 20 people I knew in town advertising, including her and our mutual friends. This didn't prompt any response, but half the people I sent it to didn't respond, which is pretty standard when you mass text something. Here's the actual message if it matters:

"Fire department having a "Breakfast with Santa" fundraiser tomorrow morning 9-11, 3 bucks for adults, come show your support by eating as much bacon as possible "

Was it a mistake to include her in the mass text? I thought it would be stranger, and show me reacting more if her friends/roommate got the invite and she didn't. At the moment, whatever message I am conveying I want it to be that she does not affect me emotionally, and I don't need her. By excluding her, her friends would be talking about how I sent them texts and not her, then it would seem like I was INTENTIONALLY ignoring her... which IMO comes off weak.

Tru, I am past the "wanting to date her" mindset now, after the last couple weeks thats for sure. But of course, the desire to resume some kind of FWB thing is still pretty overwhelming, and I am definitely missing the attention if nothing else. Like I said, her going more than a day or two without contacting me (in the last 3 months) is basically unheard of. I've got my suspicions as to why, but trying not to dwell on it, whatever the reason then I'm glad for it because I probably needed the break if nothing else.

In a way, I hope she's fucking some new guy, and gets the poor schmuck dating her. It will give a clear brick wall for at least a month or two for me to really move on from this, before she starts trying to fall back on me again. Because it's only a matter of time... and if not, oh well. My attempts at gaming and shit the last couple days have been a string of rejections, but at least I can learn from it. Better than just sitting at home sulking, I'm texting/talking to people like mad right now. Had a few different (guy) friends try to hit me up to hang out today, but I was just too busy. I could have a couple bros and their hoes sitting over here smoking hookah and chillin, but I've been awake for too long and need to get up early. Long day. Good day. Not great day. But maybe not getting some slag backup snatch is a good sign I need to keep my aim high and not settle. Not saying my next piece has to be AS hot as my ex, but over the last several days other girls have magically been getting hotter - I'm not comparing them subconsciously to my ex anymore. As hot as I (believe) my ex is, I know the full package ain't worth the drama.

Good for you man, move on and if she tries to come on to you again and suggests plans, get her over to YOUR place and fuck her, but dont get emotionally attached to this psycho again . And dont cuddle after, let her cuddle while you lie whatever way you want as if she wasn't there. Also if I were you, I'd say enough is enough and ask for your money back, say you're tight for cash. That'll make it easier not to give a shit about her.

Yeah it's technically day 5 now. In my past experience, when you lend someone money, it's a good way to find out if they're using you or not. If not, they will actively try to pay you back, in increments or otherwise. People with little/no intention to pay you back will just avoid you, so as to avoid the "where's my money" conversation topic.

Like I said above, at this point it's almost like I just miss the attention. Since she came back to school, it was extremely rare for the weekend to come around and her not get ahold of me. Despite being a pothead, she's not the party type of girl, so weekends she would often leave her party friends and hang at mine. I caught myself thinking about this as I woke up and just told myself "She's got a new fucktoy, nothing you can do, not your problem, look at it as a good thing" whether it's true or not, it's easier to just assume it.

Visor you've got a good point about the money. I really didn't anticipate she'd go this long without contact... you're right, it will give me one less thing to think about. Before I do that, I'd like to get a second opinion on it though. After her not responding to my text Monday (a reply to hers) and the mass text I sent out yesterday, I'm extremely hesitant to send ANY third text unless it's a very good reason.

Fair enough if you want a second opinion, but I'd say being tight on money is a good reason. You just want your money back, that is all. If you do end up meeting her for the money, get it off her, thank her, and leave. Dont start a conversation, dont invite her to hand. If she invites you or starts a conversation, do what you want, but do not initiate it!

Just my 2 cents, take from it what you will and good luck sir

Thanks, I might just do that anyways. This morning I went to my fire department's fundraiser with one of my best friends. During our conversation she mentioned that while she was out last night she ran into my ex on the street outside the bar last night, my ex came running up to her all excited about how she was tripping (on acid I assume) and shit. I really didn't feel like hearing what she was up to, you know? But as I suspected, now that my ex earned a bit of money working while home on break, she's out drugging and probably slutting it up too, and actually you know, paying me back would be detrimental to that fun. She's tried to coerce me into buying drugs for her before, I did when we were dating (we shared them) but I haven't since she came back. I'm not enabling anyone's addictive lifestyle, and I'm not making any friendships contingent on me buying alcohol or drugs.

Whatever, man. I'm really getting tired of college game. I'm at a different point in my life now. I'm 29, sober, and just want to focus on school and having a life outside of partying. All these young girls just want to party and run around, I did that for years and I'm done dealing with that immature bullshit.

So what, you think I should just send her a text like "Hey, money is getting tight (it actually is soon) so can I get that money from you today?". I'm in a bad place in my head right now. Or I could say "Hey, what's up? You still have that money you owe me? My unemployment is about to run out and I need it."

It's just so stupid. Until thanksgiving break, she wasn't like this. She even cleaned my apartment for my birthday. She was behaving well, thanking me genuinely for anything nice I did, telling me how sorry she was for eating all my frozen strawberries, and just being nice in general. Again, chalking a bit up to borderline stuff, but there should be a base level of respect here like any other person I am friends with.

I think you should just text her about the money, get it so you don't have this excuse anymore, and end it right there. No more FWB no more gf no more anything but aquaintences. She sounds like a terribly immature girl who has no direction in life. Do you want that? No. Even just banging her is unhealthy. Just get the money and get out bro.

FIND MORE GIRLS

I agree with your last post 100% now, Tru. A week ago I would have said that salvaging a FWB-type thing would still be ok, and after this week I doubt that's any good for me either. As I said before, up until my OP she was still very much involved with me, it was basically like an actual relationship without the commitment. I honestly did not expect her to go this entire time without ANY contact, and I just want to get the money back and be done with it. I asked my IRL friend who is up to snuff on all this what to text and she said to text 'so am I going to see you anytime soon?' which is precisely what I did... three hours ago, and still no response.

Now there could be some logical reasons for her avoidant behavior, i.e. cell phone issues, her "trip" from last night, shacked up with another guy / her friends, whatever... but assuming she continues to ignore me after this last text what should be next approach be? Text her more directly later tonight, wait until tomorrow, if so what should I say? If enough time elapses, I can contact her through her roommate/mutual friends with the "concern for her well being" false motive, but honestly I agree just try to get my money back and get out. I did nothing to deserve this kind of SPAM, and it's the last fucking straw. She hasn't pulled any bullshit like this since I've met her, and the last time we had real communication issues was months ago when we reconnected after the summer of NC post-breakup.

Don't worry about my motives, now. I've taken her behavior of the last couple weeks into serious consideration as to why she isn't worth any more of my energy, or even worth spending another conscious thought on her. Fucking abusive women. Seriously, if anyone's bored and wants to read up on Borderline Personality Disorder, or is a psych person who knows about it, then feel free to comment. From all my experience, and everything she's revealed to me over time she exhibits so many symptoms that if I were an actual clinician already I would have diagnosed her with it. Knowing about the disorder helps me understand and deal with her behavior.

EDIT: Went running for about 45 minutes this afternoon. Exercise is a good thing. Except now my fascination with BPD has had me reading about it for the last couple hours... gonna watch some Afro Samurai and smoke hookah.

I'm new here and I'm definitely no PUA, but I know where your coming from and can give you my opinion. Pumpington asked if your in love with her and though you haven't answered it's very obvious that your feeling for this girl are incredibly strong.

As far as the money goes I wouldn't text her, I'd leave it be unless we ran into each other face to face. This is just my opinion and I will readily admit I'm a prideful man and to me my pride is more important than the money. She may interpret your asking for the money as spiteful and in my opinion may only furthers her thoughts that she has power over you.

I'd also leave the issue with the other guy alone too. Your not in a relationship and though it's disrespectful that issue should have been dealt with immediately. Letting her know you've been stewing over it this whole time will only come off as weak(in my opinion). Corrective action for bad behavior needs to be quick so as to relay that you have self respect and won't take shit like that. Doing it later comes off as you not having the balls to say something until you've stewed in it because of your feelings and you essentially confront her out of desperation(again just my opinion and as I've said I'm very prideful, perhaps a fault of mine).

Other than that I'd cut contact all together with her. No explanations unless she asks and even then I'd be vague and essentially imply I'm making changes in my life and it's limited my time(hopefully she's smart enough to realize you mean you only have time for things that are important, which doesn't include her). Any kind of contact is just going to fuel your feelings for her. Hate and rage go hand in hand with love and deep caring. The more you let her aggravate you the more under your skin she'll get, don't give her that power.

Make a clean break and focus on self improvement and other women. Get yourself at least 2 real FWB's. Women who you keep separate from your circle. They come in handy during times like these, to everyone else they seem to come out of nowhere make good arm candy and help you keep your head on straight. Though I falter and find myself slightly caught up at times, I'll tell you with 2 FWB's on the side coping and not becoming desperate becomes a lot easier. I'm lucky enough that I have one FWB whose been with me for 10 years and she's the best. About a HB8 and loves playing my wing, she eats up other women getting jealous over her and me and is down for MFF action when the mood strikes her no matter her relationship status at the time, god bless her.lol!

Firstly, I apologize I did not directly address this post earlier. A lot of good points you made here, sir.

First point, about exclusivity/what I want/etc. When we started fucking again, the agreement was to be non-exclusive, and I insisted that if we had sex with other people then to inform each other. Since, of course, sex was mostly unprotected (a bad idea, I know...). However, as November progressed, she started acting more "girlfriendy" by staying over, hanging out almost daily, cooking/shopping together, hanging out in each other's friend circles, etc. It seemed that both of us were starting to have feelings for each other again, and two weeks ago this issue was brought up. I told her I was starting to have feelings for her, and was interested in the possibility of something exclusive - after all, I didn't really want to sleep with other women as long as she was available. She stated that she didn't feel the same, and enjoyed being single, so we left it at the original arrangement.

To my understanding, she has not had sex with anyone else since September. Do I believe this? Possible, but unlikely. I had sex with her friend in mid-October, but it was in a pseudo threesome situation - she was in the room when it happened, and consented to it beforehand.

About her friends, I am mostly nice and polite to them, we all get along pretty well. I pick on them sometimes for humor's sake, but I do that with everyone. It's just my personality. My concern upon the OP was what to do with this particular guy because it seemed he was trying a bit too hard to assert dominance over me, but I didn't want to get all butt-hurt about it. But right now, the focus on this topic has shifted quite a bit, so I will tend to your other questions.

Am I in love with her? Possibly, but I know that it's not mature love or anything. It feels almost more like some sort of attachment, power struggle, perhaps more a desire for her company/attention/sex than a real desire to be with her. Why it was/is important to me, for the last couple months she fulfilled many needs of mine, we spent a lot of time together, and she was my main (only, really) source of sex. I basically became too attached and invested for my own good, and her behavior has reflected that lately. As I said, I indicated to her that I was becoming interested in something more than FWB (exclusivity) and while she admitted we were in some kind of relationship she made her position quite clear. As of now, it's been nearly two weeks since I've slept with her (or even seen her really) and it's given a bit of time for me to step back and analyze the situation.

I wish that someone had told me about correcting the bad behavior immediately before. It could have avoided this whole situation blowing up like this. It lead me to ignore her next text... then the next conversation I let my angry emotions interfere and came off as an asshole about the money... this put her off and now she hasn't contacted in over 5 days. However, it did put things into perspective, so perhaps it's all for the best.

Now Stig, you're saying as far as the money goes, not to text her out of pride and that she will think she has power over me. Right now, I have two priorities 1) let her drift off the map with no/minimal contact and 2) get my money back (and a couple other small things) before that happens. The money is my only current "tie" to her - I likely won't "run into her" because it's a rare event that I do anyway. She has her own circle of friends, and spends most of her time at their apartments/dorms just getting high. I don't give two shits about the power struggle or acting alpha anymore, I just want my money and then to get her the fuck out. Since my OP, her behavior (and the encouragment of friends and this forum) have convinced me that this is the last straw for her, and I want nothing more to do it. Not support her, help her, love her, care about her, nothing, because it's too much of a drain on me. Maybe in several months I could again be acquaintances / fuck buddies but that's then, this is now.

As far as getting new FBs, I've tried gaming like crazy the last week or so, I think I'm coming off as too desperate. I'm not getting anywhere... the best shot I had was in the above post with J, but no success there either. It's actually been about 18 months since I went more than a couple weeks without sex, I think I'm just going to stop focusing on game at all and focus on my own life. It seems like every GF/FWB/FB is just one rebound after the other, and have to get comfortable being alone and single for awhile. Instead of using another person to fill that emotional gap, I just want to take some time, spend it on myself and my friends/family.

Anyways, for Tru, I'll update on the situation. It's now been almost 12 hours since I sent the text, and no response. I am considering following up on it tomorrow, and getting more aggressive about getting the money back at least. I spent the last couple hours hanging out with some unrelated friends, planning a party and just smoking hookah. And now I've got an ambulance call! Later, gents.

I'm glad that your cutting her out bro. Support from friends and the community here helps, it's good to talk shit out. Helps keep emotions in control and stop us from doing something we'd regret. I know it helps me, puts things in perspective and makes me aware of things I may not have been aware of on my own.

As for focusing on family and yourself that sounds like a great plan. Come out the other side a better man is my motto. As for finding a FWB in my experience younger girls make the best one's as long as you keep an emotional distance. Younger girls in general(not all) are all over the place, but being older you bring things to the table that someone her age doesn't. Your own place for example a more interesting life, travel. Even if she doesn't partake in the travel it's something for her to be impressed with. Also try rolling with a wing, I think you mentioned a female best friend see if she's willing to be a wing. You'd be surprised how many say yes. They find the role challenging and interesting heck and sometimes that interest turns back to you. My Wing/FWB was initially just a wing, now she's the best FWB/Wing ever. I'd wife her if I could trust her, but I know how she is and if she cheats on her man with me she'd do it to me if I became her man guaranteed. Plus it has the added benefit of you getting some attention from her which may help lower the desperation aura you think your putting out.

Also if I had to guess the desperate aura might be coming from you gaming one girl at a time. I work a room, pick out 2-3 potentials and bounce between them my friends and my wing. This way I don't accidentally over invest and act like an AFC. Also I don't know if this sounds like I'm a a-hole but when I look for FWB's I zone in on girls with boyfriends. They're usually being treated like dirt and looking for an outlet and already have an emotional attachment to their boyfriend which helps keep me in perspective by their actions. Meetings are quick and relatively straight to the point.

Again these are just my opinions as I'm not a PUA, just a noob but this is what has worked best for me thus far.