If this happened 2 months ago and you haven't kissed her or anything since then, then it should have been a pretty obvious answer. If you hadn't kissed her and this distance persisted for more than 2 weeks I would have said it was through.

Although now that you've given all this extra info the picture is pretty clear and I agree with you that she just LJBFed you, you need to learn to be more open minded on a few things. I know a LOT of people that wouldn't leave the city if their mother told them not to, quite a few of them in their 20's; there's tons of people that respect authority and family highly enough to do that. Kissing a girl the first time you hang out with her isn't a bad thing either, as long as you do things right (not just kissing, the whole picture). If you go about it properly, then you haven't sated her desire for you, she will always want more and you can sleep with her the first get together, without any negative consequences at all.

For instance, the last girl that I went out with felt an obligation towards her family and so even though she didn't want to hang out with them and she complained that she did want to hang out with me, if something came up, she felt she had to choose them over me (my best friend growning up was/is the same way and he's almost 24 and hasn't lived at home for 3 years). The first time I hung out with her after getting her number, we met at a club and got about an hour and a half together before they shut down early because a bouncer got jumped by 6 guys. I ended up kissing her that night and then a few nights later she came over to my place and we had sex after having known each other for around 3-4 hours and less than a week. We stayed in a relationship for a while and just because we got physical so soon, that didn't change anything, we had sex the next night even and she wanted to see me every night for the next 2 weeks until I ended up leaving the city on business for a weekend.

You definitely need to conduct yourself properly in order for those types of things to work, but just because it didn't work this time, doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all. Adopting limiting beliefs like that will only reduce the amount of things you get to experience and the possibilities you have in life.

As far as your comment about PUAs thinking they know stuff about relationships, I'm not sure whether that was directed at me or not, but I hope not. I've never toted myself about as a relationship expert and I detest the label of PUA. I don't consider myself a PUA, I've never wanted to be a PUA because I don't have the sets of values that PUAs tend to have; I like quality, not quantity and I actually prefer relationships versus one-night stands. I understand they psychology of people and I've got a lot of life experience, as well as having studied pickup extensively though, so I do have a large knowledge base and although sometimes I'm wrong, fairly often I'm right and when I'm not, it's usually because the person posing the question left out important information. I consider myself qualified, because other people tell me I know things, not because I think I know things. I'll agree that a lot of PUAs think they know about relationships, when really the way a relationship runs is a bit different (although not completely different, many things remain the same, or only slightly change), unfortunately I don't think you were in a relationship, as that was your first time hanging out together and nothing ever happened again after that....

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Alright Rye Rye.

I don't really know how to describe my problem... I might have a fear of failure, but honestly I think I have a fear of success.

Before I got into The Game and such, I was already a good looking, comfortable, naturally cocky-funny guy. Now with reading The Game, watching all of the Mystery Method and Annihilation Method, my confidence has shot up and I have very little AA. I have no problems approaching sets and starting off even with a 'hey' and a smile, and I almost always get good responses. When approaching older, hotter women (outside of my university) I used canned openers and gambits.

It seems like I do everything well and I get past the hook point, where it goes down hill. (I think part of the problem is I do not usually select a target when opening a set and play it by ear from there.) I don't do anything wrong I don't think, I just... bail...

I have girls eating out of the palm of my hands and then say 'I'll catch you later' and I rejoin my friends. I could get laid so much more if I just stick with it but for some reason I just don't. I feel really awkward when I get the attraction of the group and I fail to single out one and move towards taking her back to my dorm.

I was wondering if you could help me out. I asked Jeeves and he just gave me a bunch of useless links

Hi Rye Lee, got some questions (that you may have answered already, if so soz).

Basically been scanning the forums and beyond, alot of openers seems to be asking for opinions, given the widespread of the PUA community wouldn't this almost seem like a callsign of a PUA? I've heard of girl friends tell me bout wat a guy just said to her and after reading some of the openers I can instantly recognize they are fellow PUA or at least wannabes.

Guess this leads up to my 2nd question is being so easily identifying PUAs through openers and what nots I guess i'm scared of AMOGs even PUAs hanging wif friends just recongizing what i'm trying to do and shoot me down (out AMOG me or warn their friends), how do you handle that?

Thanks in advance

Okay Rye, I think you got the answer for this one. So here's the problem. I work out on a regular basis at a local gym 5-6 days a week. Anyways, all the front desk girls are pretty hot. Now I guess I get confused if they are flirting with me or not b/c I've gotten 2 of the girl's numbers. But they kind of just responded and avoided hanging out until they eventually just ignored me. I guess I didn't get enough rapport with them... So anyways there is this new HB8 that just started working there. She seems to be pretty flirty with me. However, all I have said is Hello and maybe a 1-2 minute conversation one time. How do you pick up a front desk girl at a gym. At this point I am failing miserably.

-Joe

Well there was this girl in my drama class, I hitted on her group(never payed too much attention to her) , the next day I realized she was looking at me alot and when i look at her she would quickly look down. But the day after, she was being really cold to me and sorta look down and ignore things I said to her. Do you know y? and how to show her that I am intrested?

I often don't pick a target until I'm in a set, or sometimes switch targets after I have got into a set and it can be done with great success. As long as you haven't singled any of them out yet, then you can still pick a target, but once you have made it apparent as to your interest, then it becomes a little more difficult to do, although not impossible. I personally like to get a feel as to who they are before I pick a target, because I'm not just looking for a physically attractive girl, I'm looking for one that I can connect to. Sounds like you may be doing the same if I'm right.

Once you start getting them attracted, then that's a great time to gauge who's most attracted and who you're most attracted to. When you have an idea what one you like best (part of this can be done by just examining your own body language and seeing who you are favoring unconsciously) then you adjust your game so as to make her more attracted and send her some SOIs (statements of intent), such as escalating kino, laughing at her jokes, eye contact, etc. Pay attention to your body, it will tell you who you like, or even IF you like someone in that group; if you don't, then you don't have to force yourself to pick them up just because you can, it's alright to have standards and want more than just a lay.

If you're still having trouble with choosing targets, then perhaps the issue isn't so much the fact that you aren't choosing targets, but that you are unable to decide who you'd like. Maybe you need to do some serious deep soul searching and figure out what you're looking for in a girl; what it is you want right now; make a list of the qualities you're looking for; your expectations and what she'll make you feel and how she'll do that. If you can't figure out how a girl will make you attracted, then you're gonna have very little chance of it happening and you'll always be searching for that elusive girl of your dreams.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

That's one reason why I don't use canned material, the very few times I have, people have asked where I heard it from, or mentioned that some other guy had said it before. When it does happen, I just laugh and either play dumb and move on to another topic, or I tell them I was curious what they would say, because I had gotten it from wherever and was wondering if it worked.

Generally it's just easier to avoid anything that is publicly known, or structured in such a way. I just go up to people and say, "Hi!" or mention something I was talking about with a friend, or something I noticed situationally, that way it doesn't look like a line, because it isn't one.

As long as you're a cool guy, then even PUAs usually aren't going to try to blow you out. As long as a guy is a decent guy, then I'm cool with him coming into the group, that's why I go out; to meet cool people. Many PUAs are pretty good natured and interested in meeting new fun people, regardless of whether they are guys or girls and so as long as you show that, then you'll be fine. If they blow you out, then just take it as a learning experience and realise that maybe you weren't effectively awesome enough yet, but you will be with more practice; no one ever wants to blow out an awesome guy, we all want more awesome people around us, even if they ARE going to take a girl we're kinda interested in, we just can't help but love them!

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

You need to establish better rapport by having more fun and lengthy conversations. Remember that part of their job is to be fun and flirty back; they are basically hired guns for the most part. Most guys are gonna fall all over themselves showing interst, so you have to get her showing lots of interest in you, then while discussing things that give you a reason to interact with her outside of the gym, tell her to give you her number.

After you've got her number, you call her up greet, do a bit of fluff, "Hey, how's it going? Oh yeah? I've just been busy doing _____" and make it apparent that you are an interesting and busy guy. Then you mention that thing you were talking about that connects to outside of the gym and tell her that it's time you guys get together and do that thing. It is perfectly natural and will work because that's the reason why you got her number in the first place. Now you just need to find that something that will interest her and make her want to see you outside of work and make sure it's fun!

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Well, based soley upon what you've written, my guess is that she was hoping you would have approached her. Girls actually believe that when they look at a guy, he gets the hint and will know she's interested and take the next step. That's one possibility and would easily explain why she was later upset that you hadn't taken those steps. I can't be completely positive of this, as there's not a ton to go on, but that'd be my first guess.

I'd just pretend that you hadn't noticed that she's been cold to you. Just sit down next to her, start talking with her and be friendly. If she's actually interested in you, then directly engaging her will give her the chance to show that she is interested. Work your magic and get her attracted and use playful kino, like nudging her with your shoulder or knee. There's all sorts of playful little things you can do, like touching her arm when you make a point and if she reacts positively, then keep going, if not, then perhaps you misread her attraction and either have to work at getting it up, or move on to another target.

Hope that helps!

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

hey this is my first field reportish and i need some advice

okay so i met up with some friends today to play some rugby but we bumped into these other 2 friends 1 guy and the other HB 7.5. we know eachother and are alright, and i know im not yet in the LJBF zone. iv heard from reliable sources that shes wanted to get with me before so there is some tension but she doesn't know that i know (confusing i know). so anyway today we were talking and stuff and i neged her and she gave me some IoIs and there was some kino also but not too much (i gotta stop being a pussy). but where should i take it from here? if you need more details then just tell me, thanks.

Hey Rye. Dude you have really been a great resource for me and I have really appreciated your responses. I am not a Newbie when you consider my number of posts but for some reason it just makes more sense to post this question (if you could even call it that) here than anywhere else at least right now.

A year ago when I stumbled upon The Game and The Community I realized that I could finally achieve what I always wanted but couldn't because of an Aspergers Diagnosis. You guys put human relations in a form I can understand.

I have felt for a while that because of school and other commitments or other people (like my mother when I was at home this summer) have kept me from consistently sarging. I cannot tell you how much hate I have felt for the named things (my mom, school, and other assorted bullshit) because I can't seem to have time to sarge consistently. A year ago I told a councillor that I was seeing as part of school-sponsored chemical councilling program. Basically I written up in the dorms and I was forced to attend. I am not an alcoholic I just had a couple of transgressions (after I became of age) and the only made me attend a group session for the first. Anyway, I told the woman that I felt trapped by school. Since then little has changed. I had a lot of opportunities in South Carolina that I failed to take advantage of. I had a whole summer to sarge in Billings MT,but never really did any because it seemed like I was always under somebodys thumb. Various episodes of depression have made me a believer trying to interpret feelings and voice them. A couple of days ago I was able to voice that feeling of being trapped in a question, "Can I be happy?" All I want to do is sarge and read PU material on a consistent basis and I don't know how to find room for it w/ school, job etc... It feels like I just can't. I love The Community and everything about it but it feels like I have so little margin for error w/ school that there really is no time for it. I came to Bozeman to see a friend (who is pretty good with women, while I am writing this, I can hear a girl moaning in his room). Last night we hung out w/ a girl (not the one he is currently boning), HB 8. It was really fun. I did my best to game her, she threw a couple of shit test at me and I even did a microscopic bit of NLP. I knew it would be weird if she hooked up with me instead of him, but I thought what the hell, who knows. Maybe 10 minutes after we got home, I saw them making out on his bed and lost it. I saw what was lacking in my life and I thought how it felt like it was being dangled two inches in front of my face but my arms were tied and it was impossible to reach. I called a female adult friend today and bawled my eyes out for 30 minutes and right now I am emotionally spent. I just want to sarge and read and be happy because this is the most important thing in my life and yet I can't do anything about it (crying while I type). I just don't know what to do.

_________________
Call me Sly.
My goal: To become a Pickup Artist in everything but name.

And yeah, This is (still) just the beginning.

Well if you already know her, then you either have her phone number, or can easily tell her that you guys should get together and hang out so that she will give you her number. Then you just tell her that you're gonna be doing something and she should come hang out with you/do it with you; something that will be fun for both of you and that won't be like a date, just hanging out.

Once you're hanging out with her, you just keep moving forward from where you were the other day. Tease her playfully and use more kino when she's laughing and having a good time so that you touching her is linked to good feelings. Be careful about trying to neg her, as often guys end up insulting girls by doing this and blow their chances, that's why I recommend teasing instead. You have to touch though, because if you aren't making touching each other more comfortable, then you aren't gonna be able to move things forward.

Build sexual tension with eye contact and the way you touch her once you've made touching comfortable, which is a much more in depth topic. You get the sexual tension going and then things will progress to the next step, which will be you guys kissing. Don't bother with asking her if she wants to go out with you or be your girlfriend or anything like that; if she wants it, it will happen just by you guys hanging out and having fun together, as long as you're touching.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

It sounds to me like you need to evaluate your life. Ask yourself a series of questions to figure out what you should be doing.

1. What is it you want to achieve in life?

2. Where are you now and what do you need to do in order to achieve what you want?

3. What are you already doing in order to get where you want to be?

4. What more do you have to do in order to get there?

5. What are you doing right now that you don't need to be doing in order to get there? What can you cut out?

6. How can you re-organize your life in order to include everything you need to be doing in order to achieve your goals? (This doesn't mean everything has to happen at once, there's a good chance you won't have time and need to make a plan about what you will do first and then what you'll do once you've achieved that in the next few months or year or so. This way you will work through your list of things with a plan on getting through them all and a timeline, rather than just a bunch of things you wish you were doing, but don't know when you'll be doing them.)

This isn't something you can do in 5 minutes, you're gonna need at least an hour, most likely several. It's not gonna be easy, because you've got a lot of things in your life that are probably conflicting and that you'll have to sort out in order to be happy with your choices.

I don't know what your plans are in life; maybe you want to be a doctor and so you have to be in school to get there, in which case that's probably not something you want to remove, but perhaps you are just in school because you've been told that's what you should be doing, yet you don't have any clue what you want to be; maybe you're doing yourself a disservice by staying in school when you don't want to be there, I dropped out for 3 1/2 years before I finally got to the point where I was ready to go back and knew what I wanted to do.

Maybe you just need to write up a better schedule, stop spending time doing stuff that you don't have time for, like playing games, watching tv, reading for hours, whatever; maybe you're spending your time on the wrong things. I've been feeling like I don't have time to accomplish everything I need to, so one of the things I'm gonna be doing today or tomorrow, is planning out a schedule including when I'll be doing homework, when I'll do my chores and when I can afford some down time. I'm no stranger to feeling like I don't have enough time and often it ends in resentment, but when I reflect on how much time I have, usually I realise I just spend too much doing things that aren't productive towards my goals.

Set aside a few hours, get yourself a notebook and answer those questions. Allow yourself to question yourself, what you're doing with your life and whether you're actually achieving what you want. It should be scary, it should be difficult, if it's not, then you're not giving it serious enough consideration. Don't worry though, you're not committing to anything by writing down your feelings, you're just working through them. You may find out that you absolutely don't want to be in school anymore, but for one reason or another, you aren't willing to leave it, which is ok and you can still make things better just by re-organizing things in your life better. If you do see something as not being helpful in your life though, it's ok to remove it from your life; you've only got one and you don't want to waste it doing stuff that you don't want to do, just out a sense of obligation. It's time to take control of your life and this is the first step to it. If you're open to it, then once you've done this, you should come back here and let me know what you've discovered; even just writing it out here may help you figure out what you should do and if not, then I'd be happy to give you some more advice - just remember that is all it is, it's up to you to make the decisions or disregard my advice where it doesn't fit.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I have a sticking point that is my problem with about every girl that I meet.

I can open just about any girl and start a conversation. I use Cocky and Funny, situational facts, just say "Hey How's it going", or canned openers. Regardless I can build trust and comfort with the girls too, what happens is I have a hard time breaking rapport or forming attraction with the HB. An example of last Friday at a Denny's with a HB7 who was a waitress around midnight.

Me: "Hey those aren't diagonal" (She was folding napkins around silverware)
HB7: Yes they are, see here is the base line and they go up to here (pointing to the other corner of the napkin)
She was obviously playing back.
Me: "So how many of these napkins do you have to do?"
HB7: "I have to fill this and that one" (pointing to to trays)
Me: "Ouch, that much suck."
HB7: No, not really its not that bad
Having overheard her talking about all the annoying cheerleaders and high school students coming in drunk late at night, I decided to use that as a situational conversation piece. I also had noticed a large group of that same situation tonight so it wouldn't seem like I was eavesdropping.
Me: " Yea, like having to deal with all those cheerleaders. "
HB7: (stops working) "They are so annoying"
Me: "Drunk and older grungy men must be worse though."
HB7: " Actually, I use to work at a strip club in Los Angeles as a bartender. They are just easier to handle."
Me: "Yea you can just be rude to them, but the kids are innocent."
HB7: "Do you think you were innocent at that time"
Me: (sarcasticly)" I was and still am deeply religious"
HB7: (laughs)

The conversation went on for another five minutes and now as I write this I think I see we never really talked me or my life at all, which may have helped to connect. Otherwise at least I opened her and when we left ( we were paying for our meals at the time) every waiter in the house were staring at me, and some of them had come up to the table to pretend they were helping the lady fold the napkins around the silverware.
It was my hometown so I'd be going to my college-town the next day, so I told her I was from out of town and said goodbye.

My problem was I never felt there was attraction in the conversation or form her so I couldn't find a good angle to ask her and n-close.

Any help here was there a bigger problem? Any other things I could of done to n-close while the whole restaurant stopped and watched?

Gamma.Male

#42

As you realised yourself; you never brought the conversation around to yourself, or her for that matter. It was all just what we call "fluff"; random topics that have no actual weight as far as eliciting her values or yours, so that you are able to connect. Your conversation was about the equivalent of commenting to a person at the bus-stop about the condition of the weather and then moving on to whether it was going to be a warm summer, or a cold winter, then discussing the effects that would have on the crops, or whatever.

I may start by commenting on the weather, but then I'll mention how I hope it won't be as cold a winter as last year, because when I was in Toronto last year, the snow was piled as high as a city bus on the sides of the roads; which sucked, but it was nice because the after a 2 day stop in Toronto to see some friends, I flew down to Miami to run a workshop. Now that I've taken a boring conversation about nothing and linked it to a few interesting facts about my life, perhaps she'll as me who I was visiting, or what workshop I was running. I can give her a few details, but keep enough of it mysterious that she wants to learn more about me. Whether she asked about what my trip involved or not, I would then ask her to tell me some things that relate to any of the above topics, unless she already does so herself, which she often will. She might start telling me about her last trip, her interest in my workshops, about some experience with weather of some sort, etc.

Now that we've got some stuff that actually matters to us, we're getting to know each other and I can say, "You seem like an interesting person. I'm only gonna be in town for another day, but we should," this is you telling her, not asking her, "get together when you're not working and we can continue our conversation." Hand her a pen and paper, or phone, or whatever and she'll give you her number. Done. Who cares if people are watching or not, that might just make it even more awkward to say no, as now she has to explain that she had this long conversation with some guy that she wasn't actually interested in rather than some guy that she thought was nice and was interested in getting to know better.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye