You should read books on strategic warfare, specifically about one enemy defeated by another, only to recover and conquer. One example is King Goujian of Yue from ancient China against the ruler of Wu. This is one advice I can offer.

And if I may, even though I think success is influenced by hearing other people's advice and then ignoring them (Per Napolean, the laws that govern circumstances are abolished by new circumstances), I think your seduction of this woman is going to take a long time, so plan accordingly. And for God's sake, Shut Up, don't reveal your feelings to her in the process. Best of luck to picking and zoning out others' advice.

It's funny how she keeps popping up. Twice in the last couple weeks I've seen a girl who reminded me of her, not necessarily looked like Hanh but maybe shared a feature or two. Today she popped up on my "Suggestions for your network" in Hotmail. Hell I had an appointment with my therapist on Tuesday and was determined not to talk about Hanh, only to have the therapist ask me if I'd heard anything at the end of our session. Now this thread gets resurrected...

Not that I wasn't thinking about her anyway, but why do things keep bringing her to my attention? Sure those girls' resemblence was probably largely in my head, but the rest is very overt. I'm trying to get myself to at least accept that she's gone for a year, and I know that I'll be in a better position with her if I have moved on and especially if I've gotten more experience with women... yet every day I check my mail and email hoping for something from her.

I swear there is a God, and he's really pissed at me for some reason...


Anyway, that probably makes me sound ungrateful... I'm really just pining. Or opining? Rambling, more likely...

Can you paraphrase? History tends to make me cringe, or nap. Napcringe? Well, I'll look it up later at least...
Part of me has begun to wonder if it was ever possible. How many times did she tell me, even before we dated, that she's never managed to have a long term relationship? I know she's gotten serious with a couple guys, and been hurt badly by them (motherfuckers!) but it sounds like she tends to run before it can get that serious. A long time... yes... and in a situation where I may not have time, since when she comes back she'll be looking for a new career and who knows where that will take her next.

If she even speaks to me...


If she's even capable of having a relationship. Or if I am...

So, last week for some reason I decided to torture myself and re-read her last email to me. For some reason, on the second try it sounded less angry than her previous email. I was going to see what you guys think, but then I realized I was obsessing and should just drop it... but now that the thread is back up, and after my therapist asking me the other day... well, I guess I'm doomed to think about it until I've examined it.

Maybe I can at least learn something from the process.
I don't know why, exactly, but the tone here seems a LOT less angry than in her previous email. Also, why write all this out to tell me to stop emailing her? Just stop emailing me in all caps woulda done the trick. In fact, if she'd just done that for the first email I wouldn't have been goaded into defending myself...

So let's review. We meet, I basically avoid her but she spends all night with us. Then she texts me saying "she wanted to say hi but it seemed like I was dodging her."

So I email her, and she gets all angry largely, it seems, about the things I said. I apologize, and she emails back that she's mad:
1) Because I'm a waste of her time
2) Because I won't leave her alone.

So first I'm dodging her, then I'm not leaving her alone? I even said specifically in my apology that I didn't say hi because she had asked me not to contact her and I was trying to respect that. It's a blatant falsehood to say I hadn't left her alone, when I only contacted her after she made a point of communicating with me.

And waste of her time... when she took the time to write up a very long reply, and then another long reply on her phone (since she does email through her blackberry.)

To me this really doesn't add up right. I'm hurting a little less and therefore, I think, a bit more objective about it every day... and it still doesn't add up.

Unless... unless I'm a waste of her time because she was still thinking about me, even though she was leaving in a week and there wouldn't even be time to reconnect. Unless she said it I wasn't leaving her alone because she just needed to push me away so she could concentrate on her plans and knew that last time she said I needed to give her space I did so.

A part of me really wants to believe that she was just pushing me away for our own good. That we couldn't be together because she was going away, wouldn't have time to be fair to me, and could very well end up cheating on me if we did have a relationship.

Oh, and the last bit... in her previous email she said I would be put on ignore if I emailed her again. In this one, just "deleted, unread." It's a slight downgrade of her threat, not to mention a failure to carry through with the original. Perhaps she still wants the line of communication open for when she gets back?

I don't know, figured I'd open this up for thoughts. I'm moving on slowly, but I know I am...

you're stirring up irrelevant, un-reversable thoughts.

This girl (long winded "don't contact me" reply or not) Does NOT want to speak, talk, or hear from you. (obviously)

Human interaction is too complicated of a subject to analyze. you must really put together the big picture.

And I didn't go back to re-read the thread, but she never said you were ignoring her did she?

But either way, People will feel one way one day, and another the next.

She could have simply said "STOP CONTACTING ME" and you would have gotten the picture, but maybe she was particularly worked up because of something irrelevant (like stress at work, or family issues) Either way that was how she handled it, and it did not affect the outcome of the equation, you just have to be a good social scientist, and piece together the fragments of the interaction that we receive.

It is clear in this case, that she does not wish to speak to you. And if you were to initiate an interaction, she would definitely respond negatively towards you, and it would make you feel WAY WAY WAY worse.

Don't think about it. It's hard, but fuck other bitches. stay busy, DHV.

I found it very helpful to do things, that would make my ex jealous, and be busy with the coolest shit ever. hang out with as many girls as you can, and go to shows, meet people, go rock climbing
whatever.

I would always imagine the look on my psycho ex's face if she saw, or heard about the cool shit that I was doing. (which she almost always did) while she is sitting in her apt. twiddling her thumbs, and going out to a bar every once and a while.

make her jealous.. But not for her sake, for your sake. Never take her back. Keep that mentality, just live your life as badass as you can.

_________________
As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her

You sir, have been infected by the venomous little virus called oneitis. Awww you're so cute when you're protecting that little bitch when she clearly doesn't want you.

SNAP OUT OF IT

Don't feel sorry for yourself for not getting her. Don't keep chasing her. Reverse the fucking roles here! Do you seriously want a psychotic bitch like herself? Wait, that's not even the point. The point is: When a woman says she doesn't want you - You STOP contacting her.

Or in your case, you KEEP contacting her - until she starts calling you creepy. What's it gonna be?

Listen, she's gonna be gone for a whole year now. You know how lucky you are? You have a whole YEAR to cure your oneitis - and she won't even be around to ruin it for you.

No contact with her for a year + gaming other girls at the same time = CURE! Wonder if it works with cancer as well??

Anyways, my advice to you: Take this opportunity to cure your oneitis and use it WISELY. If you're not over her when she returns, it's gonna be more difficult getting over her later...

Yes, that was her text to me when she got home... she had "wanted to say hi but I seemed to be dodging her."

Zentrode]/b]: Like I said, I stopped contacting her when she told me to and only contacted her again after she texted me. Then I stopped again when she said not to (ok, after the second email where I apologized and tried to explain what I had meant with my original stupid choice in words.)


Mrcoffee is probably right, but I like to make sense of things and right now this just doesn't make sense to me. Bottom line yes, she's gone and doesn't want to talk to me for some reason... I'd probably be handling this better if she just said it was too much for her right before she left, please don't push this because it's hard. That would make sense. It would also make sense if her anger were consistent...

Actually, what would really make sense would be her NOT texting me, or NOT getting really angry about the emails. If she were that angry, why would she text me in the first place? I'm not generally even polite to people I'm really mad at, and I don't think most people are. If she was just indifferent but being polite, why get so angry that I contacted her? It's understandable, and could have been dealt with in a very calm, simple fashion.

Instead I get an indication she wants to talk, and then a wall of anger...

For some reason? Tough love bro.. But her awkwardness/unwillingness to talk to you is not a random action.

Your over-analyzation, and understanding of your own interaction with her, is truly pestering her. And by displaying beta behaviors, she concluded that she does not want to interact with you.. Like I said BIG picture.

It DOES make sense, you are just harping on little details that don't fit into the equation because you are HOPING for some reason that it doesn't make sense, so you can hold onto the fact that she still might care about you.

But if I may quote myself:
The bottom line is, human interaction is NOT an exact science.

There is too much noise, and too many variables to treat hypothesis and theories like perfect experiments. This is not to say that social experiments don't work, but you have to socially calibrate to properly analyze results.

Most likely she was just saying that, heat of the moment, in a bind to be nice. she didn't mean you were being dodgy, and that CERTAINLY did not mean, she WANTED you to contact her more, that is JUST what came out of her brain at the time.

Basically, you are reading too deep into this.

Move on, and re-read my post above. I'm no genius, but it has the only keys that will set you free.

Don't think about this girl. She sounds like a bitch. a really big bitch...

(by the way thats a test, if when you read that, you thought of about a million ways to defend her, you've still got a lot of work to do.)

_________________
As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her

Except that the "heat of the moment" was a half hour later when she was home and decided to text me. Which there was no reason for her to do...

Not a million ways, but... she's not a bitch. And yes, I do have a long way to go.


The worst part is that I know agonizing over this doesn't get me anywhere and doesn't matter much right now. Only... having some understanding of her motivations now could be important when she comes back.

i've learned something valuable about people by posting in these forums.

At this point, you won't come to this realization, until you WANT to.

The answers are all above you.
Doesn't matter.

I just said, it's not a perfect science. Just look at the facts. So she sends 1 INSIGNIFICANT text message that doesn't explicitly fit in with the rest of the signals she is sending you. Thats not incongruency in human interaction, it's just not.
It's beyond clear, and her actions make perfect sense. for your sake, ignore the text message, and look at everything else.

Also, and probably most importantly... "WHEN SHE COMES BACK"?!?!?!?!

No... just No... Are you serious.. She's not coming back to you.

I hope you meant, "Back into town from her vacation" or "Back to the bar randomly"

Because, that is just BADDDDDD..... Get that OUT of your head.

If she called you RIGHT NOW, and said "I'm sorry.. take me back" It would be the WORST idea ever to do so..

But we know you would in a flash.

What I learned about people, is that It doesn't matter what people SAY when you are this delusional about a subject. You will either, find a way to refute the advice, or ignore it completely. Because the truth is, you REALLY DO understand your ex's actions, but admitting that to yourself would be the reality, that she is really really gone.

Come on man. Either she IS a bitch, or you creeped her out to the point where she had to be bitchy in order to get her point across.

_________________
As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her

@Everyone except Onoma:

He's not going to snap out of it. He's going to make this worse and worse for himself, and only when he realises this (or gets arrested, or the shit kicked out of him) will he stop.

There is no reason to give someone advice they don't listen to. He's trapped in his own negative reality at the moment. Calling the girl a bitch or whatever isn't going to help him, it will only make the emotions he's feeling more potent and increase his frustration.

He's overanalysing everything, and it's all circular and repetitive, as the only action he can take, and should take, is to stop thinking about it. It's pointless.

Reading topics like this makes it so damned clear where I don't ever want to be, and it has been a painful read.

@Onoma: Dude, I hope you're doing okay. There's no advice anyone here can give you because you won't listen. You're fucking yourself up and the only person who can get you out of that is you. That's what I see.

As for suggestions on how to do that, you're on your own. No advice from me buddy.

I meant back from Basic Training and MOS training, in close to a year...

And really that's the third option between "she's a bitch" and "I creeped her out so bad she had to act like a bitch."

It's "she's going away for a year, and felt like she had to push me away so I wasn't sitting here waiting for her like I would if we did stay in touch and tried to build a long distance relationship."

And why would she text me at all if I was _that_ creepy to her? And it's not the one action, she spent the entire night hanging out with us even standing next to me instead of distancing herself like she could have.

There's a reason my therapist thinks this girl has borderline personality disorder, and it's not because her actions make sense. I'm just trying to figure out which side of the fence she's on...

Though I guess your vote is on the "she hates you and will never speak to you again" side.

case... and point

_________________
As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her

Hi Onoma

I just wanted to relay my experience with you so you might understand better.

First of all, the advice everyone is giving you is absolutely, totally, undoubtedly CORRECT.

I was with my ex for about 5 years. We broke up and she still wanted to be "friends", but at the same time she was seeing somebody. That was an AFC nightmare for me. She would come over, sleep in my bed, then leave without saying anything to meet with that other guy. When I tried to make a move to get her back with me, she would tell me that she just wanted to be friends. It was an extreme amount of mixed signals that wound up lowering my self esteem and just plain fucked my head up.

One day, I finally got sick of all of it and stopped all contact. And when I say all contact I mean ALL FORMS OF CONTACT. I stopped emailing, texting, calling, and ESPECIALLY stopped letting her come to my apartment. It was easier at this time because I just got fed up.

She started to go crazy. Even though she was dating another guy, her world was crashing down when she couldn't 'use' me as a fall guy. I was like her secret hide-out that just got raided by the police, forcing her to lose everything. She was constantly calling and texting from blocked numbers or other people's numbers, leaving notes on my door, etc.

I ignored them all and stuck to it no matter how hard it was. Today, I feel a lot better about myself and I'm finally ready to get back in the game. My first night out wasn't bad at all, but I'm definitely going to have to work more at it.

Just remember that YOU CAN ONLY HELP SOMEONE AS MUCH AS THEY WANT TO HELP THEMSELVES. If she doesn't want your help, then don't give it. If she only helps herself a little bit, then you shouldn't be bending over backwards to give her everything you think she needs. Just think about it, bro. Good luck.

Onoma... The reply that was given to you by Future is just a GREAT example. I suggest you read it thorougly and use it for inspiration.

We don't give you this advice to piss you off or to slow you down in life. We give you this advice because we're EXPERIENCED. We KNOW. Some of us have lived through exactly what you're living through right now.... And we found the solutions. You can take our advice and make your life easier.... Or you can ignore us, play it YOUR way and just allow yourself to be in pain for a longer period of time until you finally realize what needs to be done.

I know how you feel, but you must understand that we know as well. YOU asked us for advice. Advice was given to you.

Take it or leave it. Life can truly be a bitch sometimes. Deal with that fact.