You make a lot of sense when you describe the perfect scenario. Where you're not making sense is that your saying that beautiful women are more often seen with average/ugly guys. When you break that down to the requirements of being "alpha", having good game, and being confident and challenging and that's not typical for the average looking guy. You're also framing it as handsome men don't have any game, can't be "alpha", and can't be confident and challenging.

Most average looking guys have terrible game and get insecure around beautiful women.

Disclaimer: I believe the whole alpha thing is a joke and is the single biggest waste of time when it comes to actual seduction. It's nothing but wasted energy.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

_________________
USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY IGNORING MOD WARNINGS AND MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

I'm saying it does happen not that it's common. But when it does happen there's a good reason for it and it's based on hardwired attraction triggers in women which have just as much valence and salience as a looks based trigger. You're right that these traits aren't common in the average guy but going direct with a very attractive woman can trigger them.

If you're up against a handsome guy with equal game to yourself then yes you will probably loose out but my premise is that when the woman is beautiful then the "looks criteria" is far less influential to her than you think.
My null hypothesis is on the premise of "direct game works better on beautiful women as the very act of going direct displays high confidence"
"Attraction utility" is the net total of attractive traits in an individual.
Very true, it's because they have a high attraction utility. Their fame and (probably fortune) creates high preselection, good access to resources and "tribal leader" protector of loved ones dynamics. They score so high on these traits they compensate for less desirable ones like being socially challenged or not very handsome.

I was under the impression that you were saying it was common because you said it was common.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

Common when the guy has game or high confidence, challenging etc, it's the defining characteristic of why it happens. One is a set, the other is a subset, the subset is an undistributed term.

So your real point is that looks don't matter when a guy has a better developed personality. If that's the case your original statements are very misleading because like Dragula said, most people tend to have comparable attractiveness when they are together. It's actually the less likely that an average or even unattractive guy is getting hot women. It's usually the attractive guys that are high confidence and challenging.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

You're not making any sense.

Come on melodical, there is no shame in saying "you guys have changed my mind"

You don't need to 'have to be right'

_________________
USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY IGNORING MOD WARNINGS AND MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

Fucking hell hahahaha

_________________
I grew out of the dumb shit I used to say on here. Most of my posts don't represent who I am today at all.

For clarity guys. If the reader doesn't understand what the writer writes then it's the writers fault after all.

That's a good point. My premise doesn't extend to the female population at large I'm only refering to the uber hotties and that they're outliers in that certain attraction traits in men give them disproportionaly skewed ratios of what's attractive and what's not in men than normal women.

My main understanding (which yes may be wrong Dragula) is that a mans personality traits are way more important to an uber hottie than a normal woman and a man's attractiveness is more important to a less attractive woman.

Indeed you do see couples of comparable attractiveness most of the time but that doesn't mean that they don't desire a more attractive partner if they can get one. A lady 6 would still want a 7,8,9, or 10 if she could get one and the same goes for the guy. They're playing the standard attraction game

So what would a lady 10 want? Another 10? Well she already has them. She has dozens of them. My theory (and of others) is that she becomes more selective and looks at other traits in a man and these traits take on more importance and salience in her mind than other less attractive women. They become what's called a super stimuli and due to the unique development psychology of a 10 who has been hit on thousands of times in her life these traits become embodied in her belief structure as more important than looks.

You hit the nail on the head with your observation that it's the attractive guys that are high confidence that get the 10 but it's a linked premise. The guys are usually confident and challenging because they're attractive. They don't care if the women likes them because they know that they're attractive and have abundancy in women; it's no big deal to them.

They exhibit attractive psychological traits to women.

Well just suppose....an average guy (though learning game and self actualisation) decided to exhibit these traits who do you suppose they would be most successful with? It would be the girls who held these traits as more important than the rest of the female population. Her attraction level would be more influenced by them. Mark Manson goes into some detail on this in his book "Models" when he writes about showing vulnerability to a woman. The vulnerability means putting your balls on a plate and handing her the rejection knife so she knows that you don't care either way if she rejects you are not.

You do this by a direct approach, it shows value and confidence.

Remember: 10's usually have high self esteem, they know they're beautiful and don't care about being judged (although not in all cases) if they like you they will sleep with you or date you.

An average guy with his game (inner and outer) wired tight shows even more confidence in approaching a 10 than a more handsome rival. He knows he's not as good looking so he shows even more confidence by the act of approaching than his rival.
A distributed term is a statement which makes a claim about all the members of a class named by the term.

It's not common because most guys don't have good game and alpha traits but it is common when the guy does have solid game and rocksolid confidence.

In other words: it's not common with average guys [Jackzeros example] but it is common with guys with solid game and rocksolid confidence [my premise].

Hope I've cleared that up.

Doesn't matter if they are 5/6/7/8/9/10's. I have met some girls that they think a guy with better looks than them will be more likely to cheat and therefore switch they switch to a less attractive person and make them more of a provider mate.

Girl's don't even need to like you to fuck you. They wouldn't loan you $5 or their car keys but they would totally fuck you because you're sex worthy.

What does one do regarding effort?

2 options:

1) 100% game ?

2) 40% game, 40% work on looks & 20% lifestyle ?

#2 for me. because #1 - there was a limit/ceiling to my 'game'.

_________________
USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY IGNORING MOD WARNINGS AND MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

Melodical, it's impossible to compare what you see with respect to couples to cold approach. MOST OF THE WORLD DOES NOT COLD APPROACH. Most people dont meet their gf/bf at the bar, club, or grocery store. They meet at work, through friends of friends. You can't apply evidence from couples who most likely met at work and that dynamic to the guy approaching the same woman at the bar. That's like saying since most basketball players are tall, height matters...but the sport you're playing is tennis. The hot girl you see with the average guy, well...they met at work. They worked together for a few months before she liked him, he asked her out and they got together. Much different dynamic than the same average guy cold approaching her at the bar. Odds are, if the same average guy approached her at the bar cold, direct or indirectly, it would be a different story and he'd not be her bf.

We cant apply the rules of cold approach to the entire world, nor vice versa. It's like applying for a job. If you are referred for a job, it's a different dynamic than if you sent your resume cold. It's an easier interview if you're referred. The person applying cold, has to have his resume sharper, his interviewing skills sharper, the person getting reffered can make more mistakes. Just as the average guy with the hot girl from work had more leeway than at the bar. But you cant say your resume doesnt need to be as sharp when you're going to apply cold for the job. It's a different game.

Melodical...You're starting to be that guy that tries to twist his theories so that he can keep his original statement. At first it was very attractive women and now it's the "uber hotties". You're making it sound like these types of women have a different level of thinking and that couldn't be further from the truth. They're just girls and like all girls they want the best guy possible for whatever they are looking for at that moment. It doesn't matter if you're direct or indirect, the important thing is to express attraction if you want to be successful.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

Paralysis by analysis

Don't you think that very attractive girls are uber hotties? Indeed girls are like all girls in that their neurological architecture's are the same (genetics) but very attractive girls have a different psychological development path (environment) to normal girls. An average girls doesn't get hit on 1,000's of times by the time she is in her mid 20's, a hottie does and she has to develop a filtering system to deal with it. Shit test, bitch shields etc. All girls have the cognitive architecture to adapt to deal with this overbearing attention but only hotties have the predisposition expressed to it as they are the ones who are having it stressed.

They mentally adapt.
Which means that more attraction is expressed if you go direct. Most guys are afcs. If an afc does a direct approach on a ten then then even if she isn't interested she's totally fucking sure he's attracted to summon up the courage to approach her. It may not work out if he stays in the couragous afc camp but respect where respect is due. They tend to introduce you to their friends then.
I know, and that's the best news bar none. Most guys don't even approach when they're getting iois they want the woman to come over and do their job for them. They're nervous about getting rejected, well fuck that. How do you think the woman feels? She also has a social reputation to protect. It's even harder for her.

Indirect has its place but seriously some of you guys have posts running into the thousands. You could deal with any test a woman throws at you and keep your outcome independent frame all the way through. It's win/win.

An indirect approach gives you way more chances of success than an afc whose even scared to do a situational or opinion opener. My guess is 75% 0f men if you're in your early 20's but a direct approach expressing attraction in an outcome independant frame seperates you from 90% of guys; only other equally skilled PUAs and naturals walk that path.

It takes balls of titanium to go direct on a 10 but they're "black swans"/outliers. Alas life doesn't go on forever so if you're going to go in then do it with a 10. If you're rejected then no big deal; it's a ten for christ sake. Your friends slap you on the back and say well done mate. The 10 admires your confidence even if she's not interested and the other girls in the bar, restaurant etc think "He has really high standards".

At the end of the day it beats hovering round them or asking "who lies more" as if you really give a shit and the girl knowing full well what you're up to.

All I'm saying is : going direct on a 10, very attractive/uber hottie works better than what you think it will. Expect it to work and the last piece of the confidence jigsaw locks into place.