Jack, this is what I was talking about by the way. Situations like this.

Here is the deal, you want to trust her and be with her. You already know you can move on, we don't have to tell you that.

For that, man...You've already told her about boundaries and she crossed them. I read a post on here about the use of boundaries, and jack and I have been talking about handling arguments and people testing your boundaries.

Most advice posted in this thread already can not be applied in your case. You do not want to just cut her off, she's one of those people who are close to you that test your boundaries. After you make the boundary transparent she will respect it for a while, and then test it again, even if you are transparent in your desire that you don't want this to happen.

You think she is quality enough because you made her your girlfriend, and you are trying to control and fix these issues before they spiral out of control, so I won't tell you to just cut her off.

I will say this though, you need to evaluate why you think she is quality enough to be going through this. You clearly don't trust her, and for good reason...

She doesn't seem to trust you for no reason and as Daario Naharis said: "People who think like that, I find that they themselves are untrustworthy."

So think about what qualities she has that make you want to keep her around. Make sure you haven't just fallen for a warm body.

Now, if after you reflect on that link and determine she is a quality woman, then we address the problem at hand.

The trust issues, and her crossing boundaries that she knows is there. You are looking for a way to get her to respect your boundary, and make her trustworthy. Many guys hear deal with their boundaries being crossed by getting rid of the offender. If this is one of those hard boundaries that you absolutely do not want to be flexible on then most see the only way is to get rid of her. Because if she crosses it and gets away with it, it will become easier for her to cross it more and more.

There are articles written on this phenomena about how this is how career criminals are born. They commit a crime which is hard the first time, then it gets easier and easier to do, to the point where they don't care and it is second nature.

Thinking along those lines I wonder if past relationships can contribute to creating women who serial cross their man's boundaries.

Anyway, since that is not an option for you, you will not find any other advice in the PU realm to help you. PU teaches set the boundaries, be clear about them, and be willing to move on to the next once they are crossed intentionally by a woman, and make sure that she knows this is the consequence without a shadow of doubt.

You my friend are past that point, and there is no turning back.

But you still have hope. Jack introduced me to a non pick up book called "Thank You For Arguing" that doesn't teach you to "argue" in the conventional sense, but to win people to your side. And not in the spineless, respect-less, dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people sort of way.


For now, you need to let this go because it's building resentment in you towards her. Read that book and you will come up with an answer yourself because at the end of the day you want her, and you want her to be on your side.

Yeah I took out the part about him not wanting to admit he looked in her phone to give him some advice on how to bring her over to his side.

Do you think that he'll benefit from evaluating the woman's level, and if he still wants to stay to learn from the stuff in the book?

He knows what he should do. He just has to admit it to himself.

Is she just low quality? Or did I basically have to dump her a long time ago and then she'd be a princess by now if she came running back?

What if I dump her now and she cries and really wants to be with me (like she will) Where did I go wrong here, or should I put most of this on her

What if I dump her now and she cries and really wants to be with me (like she will) Where did I go wrong here, or should I put most of this on her

Well the good thing about women is that they are flexible. You'll have to train her into becoming a new woman and having better habits with relation to you.

Right now though she has crossed something you made clear, she knows you know that she's been getting texts from other guys (even if she doesn't know you know it's consistent) so she's already backwards rationalized that she can get away with crossing your boundary.

So your options are to suffer in an untrustworthy relationship silently - expose the truth and have an argument that won't resolve anything - setting the tone for an argumentative untrustworthy relationship - walk away and find a better woman (though if you are the underling problem then you will find yourself in the same situation with her that you are with this current girl, in which case after you walk away you would need to work on yourself and discover the root cause of your trust issues) - get the book I suggested and start using the stuff in it to mold her into what you want her to be (and I would still do a self evaluation just to be certain I didn't have any trust issues).

So you have plenty of options.

I don't think admitting he went through the phone then having a third transparent conversation will change anything.

He already made his stance clear twice and she crossed the line both times. He's dealing with a girl does not respect his boundaries.

So you justify her crossing the boundary because you weren't supposed to find out about it?

I'm not saying she's crossing them with the intent to make you look like a bitch or anything like that, but she is crossing them non-the less a cross is a cross, sneaky or overt.

Trustworthy people do the right thing even when no one is looking.

Look, even if the boundaries are different she is performing the act of CROSSING BOUNDARIES

...and we talk boundaries.

We set the boundary of no 1 on 1 coffee "dates" or bar "dates" with the opposite sex, and no encouraging of ppl we know are clearly interested in us.

We had another talk about what we are cool/uncool with...

To me these are two transparent conversations where stipulations were laid out clearly.

Jack, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that during these conversations there was nothing behind the promises but empty words? I'm thinking you're calling into question the nature of his conversation, and his power in setting and re-enforcing the boundary.

That's all well and good, but my point is that he made stances in each of these that the girl knew, so regardless of how strong his stance or the impact of his words were, he still made his boundary clear and transparent to her, and then she crossed it.

Twice.

I should have made this clearer. I had seen in her phone BEFORE we had the second boundary talk. She hasn't done it since