Conversational skills.



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 Post subject: Conversational skills.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:28 pm 
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Ive been thinking about something which i realized today, my start game is alright ive seen this now but what fucks me up is the aftermath..after ive been gaming and it gets to a more personal stage...thats when I freeze my conversation skills start sucking I go from totally confident to beeing insecure with what I say...this is really annoying for me..

how do you guys do after you've got the girl to become intressted..how do I keep her intressted..and not getting the akward feeling which comes out of nothing to say..do I ask her out..now comes real fear in..ask for her phone number..? what do I do??? I was about to do a fuck it with a hb8 and stop gaming her because of my inability to carry on after the shallow stuff..(fuck i feel shallow) share your experiences here guys. ill do my best to share mine..perhaps we could help eachother..til we get this flawless.

bleh I am getting a beer or two might get me feeling better..


B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:11 pm 
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Do you predominantly rely on routines to guide your game? This is something that guys who rely heavily on routines tend to run into, which is why I try to steer away from routine-based approaches. Not that they can't work, but they just can cover every possible conversational outcome or scenario that one may encounter in the field. So what I would do is have a grab-bag of amusing stories and anecdotes on hand for emergency purposes. Whenever you and the HB find conversation grinding to a hault and you didn't get that next IOI you needed to make the next phase shift or whatever, drop in a funny story and get really into it when you tell it. This will most likely lead way to more conversation allowing you to either get back on track with gaming the way you had been or will give you enough IOIs to the point where you know you can number-close, isolate, etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:45 am 
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Slipfinger,

I have this problem too...when the conversation needs to get more meaningful I either bail or forget and keep having meaningless conversation.

What I will be focusing on more in the future is trying to find these types of things about her:

- Her family (brothers, sisters etc) and how she fits into it
- Her job and specifically, why she does that particular type of work...what she likes about it? If she doesn't like it, why does she keep doing it?
- Where does she wants to travel in the future, or where she has already been and specifically WHY those places?

For each bit of information she gives me, I will also offer more of the same type of info about myself. This is my understanding of how to create a connection but I don't do it nearly enough. Often it is because I am having too much fun teasing and bantering!

Hope this helps.

Evolver
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 Post subject: as
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:29 pm 
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Agreed evolver, that is right but sometimes I keep my conversational skill high up there with theories any bs theory..you can come up with and make it a intressting theory that can hook an entire group, make it debatable, that way there will always be something to talk about, what ever it is...your target cant agree with you, but her set is allowed to in that way you will DHV considering you get her group of people to agree with you, and Woops your controlling the set and the frame.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:12 am 
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Yeah like Moral said, plan yourself a few short stories and anecdotes. They should convey personality and be congruent with who you are as a person - write them down on a cheat sheet and estimate how much time they will take overall, this way you at least have SOMETHING you know you can use for conversation and how long they will take to tell.
I have at least 5 planned stories that I'm equipped with when I go out, I don't HAVE to use them, but they're there.
These stories should:
-Be humourous and interesting
-Incorporate DHVs
-Be told in seperate chunks eg. tell half of story 1, then a bit of story 2, then go back and tell the rest of the 1st story (this way it feels easy say 'OMG we have so much to talk about')

Hope this helps


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:27 pm 
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Slipfinger,

I have found a real easy accronym to really help keep the convo goin. It is
FORM. It means
F-family (get her talking about her family)
O-occupation(what does she do and why)
R-recreation(what does she like to do for fun and why)
M-motivation(what brought her to the bar tonight, what makes her tick)
I think it is an easy thing to remember and if you follow this pattern, you will have a much easier time keeping the convo going. Just remember to try and relate to her answers as much as you can.

chill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:16 pm 
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In any conversation YOU have initiated YOU will have to provide about 80 to 90% of the conversation. You started it you have to keep it running.

Great openers are good and all but that is all they are - gets your foot in the door. It's after that is the most important and I think you are realizing that now.

Direct the conversation based off things she says - family, fun, work whatever. Some people advocate that being James Bond isn't necessary - I say maybe it is - you should be able to speak about any number of topics that you will most likely encounter in the bar - be up to date on locations around the place you are in, where to get good coffee, food, or tattoo. Know a little bit about booze (don't be a geek but enough knowledge to show you aren't a frat boy who only understands the term beer and keg).

Music is an easy topic as are movies or TV. Stay away from politics or religion.

Be yourself and never pretend to be something you are not (it's flirting not lying - if you aren't a magician don't try and become David Blaine right there).

One thing I will not tolerate is someone claiming to be a veteran if they are not. (too many assholes claiming they just got back from Iraq and let me show you a trick this bedouin taught me etc...) Those types are easy to spot as fakes and were I to see that? AMOG (me) is gonna be coming down on your shit in a hurry. Vets deserve more respect than becoming a pick up line.

The conversation is the most important part - anyone can get a foot in the door - even if it's barely in there - they way you get invited in is having a strong transition game from "hi" to talking - requires much more inner game and confidence - you will say the wrong thing but flip it - simply talk to people and it will come.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:01 am 
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When it becomes slightly more personnal, thats when the routine stuff can fall and the impromptu personnal experience and anecdotes can come in. Never abandon game though, everything should be subtly rapped in game.

_________________
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:12 pm 
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am i the only one that thinks that if you only talk about familly education sports hobby's asking questions interview style etc is making you mr average?
by keep asking questions she hears on every date makes you dont look any different from the average man.
AMIRIGHT OR AMIRIGHT?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:58 am 
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Quote:
Slipfinger,

I have found a real easy accronym to really help keep the convo goin. It is
FORM. It means
F-family (get her talking about her family)
O-occupation(what does she do and why)
R-recreation(what does she like to do for fun and why)
M-motivation(what brought her to the bar tonight, what makes her tick)
I think it is an easy thing to remember and if you follow this pattern, you will have a much easier time keeping the convo going. Just remember to try and relate to her answers as much as you can.

chill
This is quite AFC. If a girl is at a bar she is there to have fun and drink and probably wants to forget about all that. So use at your own risk.

Instead, talk about experiences you have had and use them to guide the conversation. Think of a comics and how they deliver their material. Some like to make quick punch line jokes and transition to the next immediatley. Others use long drawn out scenarios that build to a climax and then segway back to the beginning or underlieing meaning. Travel, injuries, akward situations, pets etc. all make for great conversations. Just avoid asking where do your work and what not, as they should be used, but sparingly here and there.

For example: (Think of a comic who is giving quick punchlines)

You: Are you more of a cat person than a dog person, because it seems that girls tend to like cats more?
HB:No I like Dogs
You: Yea met too. What about turtles? I had this turtle a long time ago it was pretty sweet. I used to swim with it in my pool. Then it ran away
HB: Really?
You: No, I don' think turtles can run. But it did walk away.
HB: Haha that sux.
You: Yea, I found the skeleton a few weeks later. I think the coyotes ate them.
HB: Coyotes?
You: Yea they live in the canyon behind my dads house.

See how I transitioned from cats and dogs, to turtles, to coyotes and I could still go on. Its all word association. By the way that is a true story, I should probably use that some time! Hope that helps....

_________________
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Of what you do, say and think." -Buddha


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 Post subject: entertain them
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:50 am 
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don't forget that after the intial opener you're there to entertain them, to show them that your a fun guy. She went out to have a good time, dont let her down. I started with an opener about cheating and within five minutes i was talking to them about the female orgasm. women want to talk about sex and you want to know more about what females think about sex. Just be interested in what they have to say. You have to be likable, you have to love yourself. Don't think that just because you have one tool you can build a mansion. If you are not happy it will show through. If your home isn't a place you want to bring a girl your never going to get here there. women have a sense for bullshit. Make sure your not more thatn 10%.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:57 pm 
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Seriously, stay away from the "interview". Worst thing possible.

One thing you can try is using role-play.

Such as this:
*actually happened last friday*

Hired Gun HB 9.5 waitress- (opener blah, my friends go outside to smoke)
HB:"Your friends left you all alone huh?"
Me:"Yeah, they know I can hang alone. And I quit smoking a couple months ago but it had absolutely no connection to my health. The extra couple grand a year is the main reason."
HB:"Yeah, I know the feeling. For the past two and a half weeks I have been just pounding away on this workout routine that I'm not doing for my health"
Me:"What? How can working out not be for health?"
HB:"I have to fly out to Cali for a photo shoot for Maxim in sept." ?!!?
Me:"Oh I see, so you gonna fly me out there with ya? Always wanted to visit Cali"
HB: giggle "Sure, 7th-15th."
*Here is the important part*
Me: big smile "Excellent, and you can be my sugarmamma! You can fly me out there and when your not at your shoot you can take me to all the fancy restaurants and I can be your boy toy."
HB:Laughs "Depends, you clean up alright?"
Me: "Yeah, as long as the rag is a Armani suit.
HB: laugh
Me: "look, I'm going out to Benchwarmers*local bar* later to support the local roller derby teams, we can discuss our Itenerary then."
HB:shining smile "Perfect, here's my number, when you head to benchwarmers give me a call and I'll meet you up there."

#close all thanks to Roleplaying. Put a woman in a role that is out of the ordinary and she will almost always go with it.

This girl never gets to be the "Sugar Momma" she is always having men buy her drinks and shit. Just remember to always say it as they KNOW you are kidding. And she will remember it too, like I called her up yesterday with a "Hey Sugarmomma, I have a couple of hours and was thinking coffee and shopping." She laughed and told me what times she had avaliable.

Seriously, try some Roleplay. I even heard of this guy talking to a girl in a club and she became his personal Cougar protection ninja for the evening. Was priceless.

Hope it helps
EvoJ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:30 am 
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Slipfinger is right... FORM them... find out what they like to do for fun... and dig... what do they do for a living and dig... etc...

I'll say this again... He who controls the conversation wins the game...

You may be making yourself too available... make sure she knows that you're not staying for long so if things get awkward you can walk in and out of the set safely or move away from where you are at the time... tell her "lets go somewhere else more quite" and you'll start to be able to take the conversation to a different environment... you may be able to use the things around you to dig more about herself... if she's talking... you have no worries of not having conversational skills just have a good story to tell and good questions to ask...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:34 pm 
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I never responded to this post again did'nt care bout it but I feel like clearing stuff up on what I meant..I never meant that I had nothing to say, about routines fuck em~ But when this post was made I felt dissintresst in ladies, all I wanted was sex..never wanted to learn to know them so I kept the convo very oriented on shallow areas, got myself the ocassional lame one night stand..but hey to steal from "Californication" ((great series)) "Better a morning of awkwardness then a night of lonlyness" I agree with that in so many ways! but as I said I was'nt looking for a gf just to get laid..Okay I fucked up went and got myself a bad case of oneitis..she's getting way to close way to fast..ever heard the cliché "we are so alike"? well not to fuck around or anything but this chick even likes jacky chan movies and watch southpark..argh! hahaha okay okay enough..

SF


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