I know its heresy because we haven't evolved to a point where we can disagree with Eric Von Markovik on anything but I'm going to tell you why freeze-outs don't fit in my game and I want to hear your opinions on them.

The bottom line is I want women to WANT to have sex with me. Freeze-outs are hard to pull of and anytime I try them I telegraph that I'm punishing or rejecting her. There is no connection being explored.

(For this next part hell will freeze over because I'm about to defend women)

Granted most women will always give you some form of LMR, I find it is always better to show willingness to leave (she: oh he's a badass) and end the night on your terms. Most of the time I find they just needed a 2nd or 3rd date and then they'll actually suggest sex. They just want to feel a little more trust because they get hurt over and over.

Lastly there are those women with the mindset of "dominate me, beat me at my own game, make me want to fuck you." Personally I've never been in a situation with them where I had to use a freeze-out to fuck them and if I did it failed miserably.

haha well are you waiting 7-10 hours of accumulated time before you try to fuck these girls? I had a date the other night with a girl which ended in kissing etc. I walked her home and she invited me up, but I declined(Had been 5 hours of knowing her). I saw her again 3 days later which ended in sex without lmr. My point is that I believe if you take the opportunity too fast to close you run into more LMR.

If the freeze outs aren't working don't do them. Hell, if you keep getting to that stage try something you think of on your own... maybe you can bring a new idea to the rest of us!

Personally, I run into no problems closing consistently after 7 hours of time with them. Something I think may help, if you're not doing this already, is to try and tease them with your touch and your kiss when you can. Build up the anticipation more and take your time.

cheers

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Yea actually I'm talking about freeze-outs on the 1st or 2nd date so sometimes 7 hours sometimes not. I'm in a agreement with you about the LMR if you go too fast so maybe that's why my freeze-outs don't work.

Yea we are saying the same thing. If you build up tension and end the first night on your terms its rare LMR will even been an issue needed to be frozen out.

freeze outs are not for her, they are for you,

it is not to get some sort of reaction out of a girl, beyond maybe you have been giving way too much attention and being needy, killing all the tension between the two of you, and giving her an absense of your attention when it is really valuable to her, will cause her to miss you and as a bi-product she will realize this and chase

but if a girl is not heavily invested in you, a freeze out won't help you at all, a girl will just grow even more distant from you and care about you even less

a freeze out should be for yourself so you don't get super attached to girls that are wasting your time, you go out on 2 dates, can't close, only getting to a makeout, things are slowing down, she flakes on a day 3, or says or does some rude shit on your date that you didn't like... why see her again right away when you didn't enjoy yourself?, just for sex?, you could just go meet a new girl and forget about that one, let her chase you if she wants you, freeze her out to give yourself time to step away from a girl and evalute if she is right for you when she is making you go through some crap just to be with her, as there are tons of girls out there and if one is causing you trouble chances are she is not worth it, there will be another hottie (or several) around every corner (if you live in a city)

also you don't need 7 hours to close a girl, that is a limiting belief driven by the mystery method, you can close girls faster then that, and some will take even longer then that, totally depends on the girl, there is no magical time limit on sex, I have seen a girl closed within 5 minutes of meeting a guy at a house party, and I have seen a girl hold out for longer then 3 months, totally situational and subjective to the girl in question and the guy in question