I do mostly indirect openers when on/waiting for the bus or in a queue or situations where it could get awkward if a direct opener fails and I still need to stick around.

Do you guys think it's good to use a pre-opener to test the waters? i.e. if she doesn't seem receptive based on facial expression and body language don't proceed and if she does seem receptive proceed.

I find that some girls give one word answers and have closed body language but I think this might be because they are not used to having someone randomly talk to them but plowing can very quickly become really awkward.

So pre-openers I use include asking for directions or commenting on some item they are carrying or wearing (like phones/phone cases, bags, watches, food).

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Technically, direct openers purpose is really for situations with limited time. If you have the time go indirect.

I dont think there is such a thing as a pre-opener. It's just an opener. Asking for directions is your opener and a weak one at that. You cant reliably gauge a reaction because she'd be reacting to a guy asking her directions, rather than someone trying to interact on a different level. Stacking forward from a question like that is too clunky and unnatural. Just take the risk and say what you really want to say (direct comment or a conversation you want to have). And commenting on something she's wearing is an example of a pretty traditional OPENER.

It's shocking the amount of guys on a pickup forum who will do anything to avoid tipping their hands and revealing they actually may be interested in a girl...

Be direct. Go after what you want with confidence... That's what all this is about. It is not somehow easier to tip toe around girls and casually ask 100 lame questions to see if you can gauge interest... It's also not an efficient use of your time.

Be bold. Man up. Stop acting like children and play this game like adults.

I disagree Charles. I don't know why, but in pickup there is a tendancy to go to an extreme. Ie, don't be afraid to show interest = just go direct.

Let's be real. Seeing that hot woman at the bus stop wanting to sleep with her, approaching her direct and then chatting up bs, to then ask about a date, taking her out, talking some more, eventually sleeping with her, is not going for what you want. So I don't know why there's some big kudos because someone started a certain way, to then act like they are looking for more than sex. And if the goal is to get to know the woman, does it really matter how it starts out?

Now, that's not to say that you should be going indirect because you're afraid to show interest or get rejected. Defintely not. And if you're doing so, then you need to work on showing interest and not being afraid. My gripe is, meeting and dating and sleeping with women is such a dynamic thing...the women are different, their situation is different, how you meet them is different, why is there this thing with being rigid to something such as how you open in a situation? You can meet a woman in a bookstore, ask about a book and lead it to a same day lay. You can meet a woman at a danceclub with the most aggressive opener and find yourself on 5 dates with no sex. You can show interest in the first few mins or you can show interest immediately, doesn't really matter and you end in the same place.

If time is not a factor, ie she has to leave soon, it's no problem to be a bit indirect and casual. Most of the time, due to me rushing, I do direct. But there are many women I meet in situations where there is time, we chat, flirt and hook up. Or we chat, she's in a committed relationship or not interested, we become friends. I don't talk to them trying to fuck them at this point, sometimes it just happens, sometimes we hang out and I hookup with her friend, sometimes I meet a girl while hanging with her, sometime nothing happens. But I wasn't just locked on getting one girl.

The problem for me, with the whole be direct thing, is it's limiting.Just add women to your life.Just talk to women. Heck, I'd say just meet PEOPLE. If direct is about going after what you want, and all you want is to meet and hookup with chicks or date certain chicks, then you're limiting yourself. Some women are just for fucking. Some are for just being friends, some are for meeting their friends, some are for having a cool chick who you meet other women with, and some may just be for playing xbox with. Direct/indirect openers are just tools. Have the important shit handled. She doesn't see you as confident because of how you opened her, at least not for any amount of time beyond initially.

Unless the female has been living in a cave her whole life, they can spot an alpha male a mile away. They smell that shit like a fatboy smell bacon. I feel that indirect openers are for people who don't think they can get them being themselves, so they hide behind routines and shit like that. "Hi, I think your (cute, pretty, good looking) and I just wanted to talk to you for a second." If she isn't receptive, bounce. If she is, you guys both know where you stand because you didn't mention that her phone case from marc jacobs is more fake than porn stars' titties.

If you don't want to read all that, being direct is the best way to test the waters.

I like direct since it's more efficient and you show intent but surely in a bus stop/bus/train/queue where everyone can hear you and you a have to stick around for a while, wouldn't direct just make everyone feel super uncomfortable? Doesn't it show lack of social intelligence?

It's not about fear of rejection.

Do you guys still go direct in such situations? I go direct on the street, in shops, shopping malls etc.

My entire point is that it's a waste of time to even engage someone who isn't showing you interest to begin with once you've tried to speak with them... And why not make useful small talk and flirt instead of trying to come up with a dozen ways to ask innocent questions which may give you some inclination she's attracted to you? Being half direct about it or even introducing some quick, innocent kino will give you an answer pretty quickly.

Doing warm approaches instead of cold approaches pretty much solves this problem, as well... And if you already know there's interest, there's no reason not to be reasonably direct IMO.

Now neo87 - I completely agree and you have a point - women have different personalities and react differently. You're going to have outliers and girls who don't follow these rules...

Exactly.

Just fucking talk to her like a normal human.

She knows your interested the second you open your pie hole.

Chatting with new people might seem intimidating, but in reality, you've got nothing to lose. So what if she rejects you? Will it cause the Apocalypse of the human race? Or a dime size bruise on your fragile ego?

It's not rocket science.

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Yeah, I'm not saying to go around asking questions to gauge is good. But going direct all the time, just because you (not you but hypothetical) feel it means you're confident is not the best. Here's something that I've realized...Fear is fear. There are indirect guys who are indirect just for the fear of rejection. And there are direct guys who are direct just because they fear holding a conversation without the girl's attraction behind it.
If you only live this be direct thing you're limiting yourself. If you only do direct, you just get used to having conversations with girls who are interested in you. I say, be versatile, be able to hold a conversation with guys, with fat girls, with old people, with hot chicks.

If I do indirect, it's never about being afraid to show interest; it's about strategy. Sometimes I talk to a chick and decide I'd rather talk to her friend. Sometimes I decide I'd rather play up the friend angle and use her to meet another girl. Indirect does give you more flexibility in adapting to what's going on. Don't be afraid to show interest, but that shouldnt mean direct is how you always approach. If you're doing indirect because you're afraid to get rejected, fix that and learn to show interest. If you're doing direct because you're afraid to hold a non sexual conversation, fix that as well.

With anything I pu, alot of the time we dont look at what our actions REALLY mean. For eg, years ago I'd go on dates and lay girls in either 1 or 2 dates. Then one day I thought about WHY i had to lay them on 1 or 2 dates. Well, it's typical community thought that you should go for sex asap for her to stick around. But what does that really mean? That however your dates are, you NEED to do something to have her stick around. You aren't compelling enough. So you're doing something to cover a deficiecny in your game, ie you aren't compelling enough. So I took a while and stopped going for the lay as soon. I tweaked my dates to where a girl would want to stick around even after 6 dates with no sex. So now, my dates are better because I stopped using what I was using as a crutch. Moral of that is, look at why you do something, if you're doing direct because you're afraid, or indirect because you're afraid, fix it and keep the good.

Thank you, so in summary; be who you are, make yourself the best possible catch you can, approach as many women as you can through as many modes as you can think of, and then the chips fall were they may.

The only consistent things are; don't invest too much time into one person regardless of who they are to you. Direct/indirect IMO is mental masturbation, I mean it's not as if it's some big secret when you talk to a woman you're hitting on her. She knows the deal.

It can help [sometimes] if you stop heading straight for the Virgeen every time. But eventually you gotta try.

I don't agree with the she knows you're hitting on her part. It kinda goes back to my dislike of seperating men into "naturals/alphas" and "afcs". The non player guy is not an afc. The average guy is not really frustrated. Many guys just talk to women and people for the sake of it. The community assumes that every guy is talking to a woman to get laid, because it's built from guys who talk to women for the purpose of getting laid, or came from that truly frustrated standpoint. Then that assumption is spread across to represent the average guy.

I've heard girls describe meeting a new guy and they don't think that just because he started a conversation in the checkout line he was interested. Now most likely from the way he progressed things I can figure he was, but they dont really think so. The truly "average" guy isn't some loner who remains quiet throughout life and then talks to women he wants to sleep with. The truly average guy chats up coworkers, men, women, he may get into a conversation anywhere. So when a guy starts a conversation with a woman, it's a fallacy that her natural assumption is he is hitting on her. I have friends who are just average, they may have a gf/wife or be single, but they chat up people. Ive seen them chat up hot girls, make them laugh and they just leave it at that. Because they were just chatting. The girl doesnt think he was hitting on her, and even though he found her attractive, he didnt start talking to her to get something. It's such a weird thing in the community to grasp that many men just dont care that much about getting laid. I have some friends from the community and its so frustrating that they dont get that life can be more than getting girls. You ask them hey man lets go catch this new movie, they are like how are the girls at the theatre? Not girls to bang...oh I'm staying home. What? The average guy just goes to a movie for a movie. Alot of guys need to realize that there's more to life than sleeping with a girl. And that the average guy isn't typically coming from this viewpoint that if he does something it must be because he wants to get laid.

http://youtu.be/90qpDg5y7Lo

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OP you are looking at behaving in a certain manner in order to gauge interest. You need to KNOW inside that the girl will be interested otherwise you are coming at it from a seeking/unsteady standpoint, rather than a knowing/confident standpoint.

I am not suggesting every girl is going to be interested or into you, but if you are a man in demand and your behavior suggests that, then why would you care if this particular woman shows interest; you're giving her a taste and if she wants the whole meal fine; if not, fine.

It's about who you are as a man more than what you say. The reason some guys who go "indirect" never get anywhere is because THEY TAKE THE 'INDIRECT' LABEL LITERALLY: they more are less are carrying a friends vibe. The reason some guys who go "direct" never get anywhere is because they are going around spambotting without carrying a socially calibrated vibe.

A girl will get wet by the man's presence and the way he says things etc way more than any logic coming out of his mouth.

This.

Girls wear panty liners and panty liners were invented for a reason. Panty liners sell a lot too aside from the fact that men don't have an equivalent product to mask their hard on.

The idea of going direct verbally works once you have achieved getting a woman's pussy wet nonverbally. Saying, "Let's go" is more efficient though than saying, "I like you" or "I want to fuck you right now."

Get her pussy wet and it does not matter whether you are direct or indirect verbally. Sometimes, a girl's pussy is already wet and all a guy needs to do is isolate her.

I accentuate my cock a lot. Girls who covertly steal quick glances at my crotch will usually get that "Let's go" routine line from me when they open me with things like, "Do you have a book in law?" or "Can you give me pointers on how to explain Six Sigma in my case study?"

"Let's go. We'll sit over there."

"Let's go. Buy me a milk tea and I'll help you with law."

Then you make her horny some more. "Let's go" is neither direct nor indirect and it gets you laid.

Stop playing mind games OP. Just be normal. God gave you a cock with balls. Use them!

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Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

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