Hey guys..i've been reading this book called "seduction" by robert greene..pretty awesome book..defiantly recommend. And i was thinking about how to best communicate with someone.

Anyway...he mentioned a seductive style known as being Charismatic. He explained the style basically by maintaining the spotlight on your "victim". Questions upon questions of how the person came to be...their opinions on things...etc. Just dig into the person and make them feel like you're genuinely interested in them as a being. By doing this you will make the person feel like someone is interested in he/she but still maintain some mystery as to why you don't brag/talk about your own shit and HOW you can simply give them so much attention.

I can't see how this will work if your set/target has an over-sized ego and will think "stop interviewing me/interrogating me". In my AFC days i would ask..listen..ask listen and there were certain times when someone would say "it feels like i'm being interviewed". Other times it works fine and people are delighted to have someone who supposedly "thinks" they are interesting.

Greene mentions that "people love to talk about themselves". I personally would be glad to answer any questions regarding why i may like something ..my opinion on a situation/my life...etc. This situation would totally be comfortable for me...but it's been shown to me that some people feel uncomfortable and lose rapport.

The entire "technique" of DHV/storytelling in a "charismatic" style wouldn't seem to work. Now how do you raise your value without your own whacky weekend stories...i guess by trying to ask interesting questions based on what the person says...but maybe just by truely listening/responding to what they say and make it feel like they have your devoted attention...at least for now.

Now my question is...say you know the person is "physically" attracted to you via IOIs...you've done some negging indicating they don't scare you...kino displaying that you aren't afraid of touching people. Can you now "phase shift" from being cockyfunny + "i have standards" way of acting to ...beginning to heavily mirror their body language and into the "i'm going to find out about you" WITHOUT coming across as "you now have me on a leash"?

Maybe it's a misconception...but i can see someone thinking "whoo, you were just practically blowing me off...now you asking me about my life and listening intently....INCONGRUENT/wtf". Since i read about NLP...i wanted to get a lot better at just LISTENING and interpreting what people are trying to say...but when i'm thinking about "DHV...listen to what they say..find it amusing...but then let them now know your opinion on it/stories of your own"....i find myself only half listening because i'm thinking of my own opinions and what to tell them next. It would probably be easier to just listen to them and base the conversation off of their responses.

And aren't you still maintaining control of the frame because YOU are the one asking the questions( therefore controlling the topic) and interpreting what they say ...reword it back to them..and continue with a different question/tangent?

Any opinions ?! =D Thanks for reading everyone!

I also just read that book. It had some points but I didn´t really like it. Pick up the venusian arts, its great. If you are in kino, go for the kiss-close, styles evolution phase shift is great for it!

Ezo

I've read the book as well, it was one of my first. My take on the book is that its a solid way of understanding philosophies and the psychology about attraction and seduction, but it can be confusing and not necessarily practical. I have really found the more recent PUA stuff like Mystery, ect. to be more practical.

As far as your question goes, it is not a problem if you do the initial stages of showing her she doesn't scare you, and showing you are in control of the situation. and then switching to ask her about herself. First of all, even if they DO think "what the hell this guy was blowing me off, now he wants to find out more about me," that would not be a bad thing. This increases you're level of intrigue, they will not be able to figure you out. You are showing you have a playful, joking side as well as a serious side. You are complex, and they'll want to talk to you more to try to figure you out.

So relating back to "The Art of Seduction Book," after your initial stages of an interaction, along with shit tests, negs, ect ect, you can and should slowly switch to more meaningful topics. And once you do switch, it would be great to use the "Charismatic" persona that Green talks about in the book. Eventually, women are looking for a connection. You can prove your value all you want with those initial techniques like Negging, but you can't keep doing ONLY that and expect to have success with women. Eventually you are going to need to make a connection with meaningful topics, so you need to consciously switch from that asshole mode to a more charismatic mode during the interaction. Don't get me wrong, the asshole mode is very important to show your value, but I'm just saying at some point in the convo, you need to switch.

I think another key is to not take anything too far that you read. If you only did this Charismatic persona, it might not work. So keep switching it up, after asking her a lot of questions, to avoid it feeling like its an "interview," that's when you need to tell stories of your own. Its just about keeping the woman intrigued, by keeping them on their feet. So don't JUST ask questions, and don't JUST talk about yourself, but instead do a healthy mix of both. And then personally, I usually go back to some cocky-funny, asshole comments at some point after I've gotten into more serious convo. You have to be careful because you don't want to interrupt and ruin a good convo by throwing in an asshole comment. But at the same time, if the convo is kinda lagging or coming to an end, thats when you can then go throw in some cocky/funny comments to KEEP the girl INTRIGUED by keeping her on her feet.

FINALLYYY, yes I think if you are asking the questions, you are maintaining control of the convo. You can and SHOULD steer those questions towards some goal. They shouldn't be blind questions. For instance, its good to steer questions towards a final goal of talking about love. You can't usually just say "Have you ever been in love before?" because its a serious topic and if you opened with that it would be ridiculous. But if you slowly steer the convo towards the topic of relationships, and then dig deeper by each question, eventually it will be natural to ask "Have you been in love before?" This is a good question because if they have, they will think about the feeling of being in love, and associate it with you because you are asking them. Even if they haven't, they will think about what love is and what they know if it from TV/Movies, and they will still feel positive emotion from the word LOVE, and associate that feeling with YOU. Get a woman to talk about relationships and love, and she will likely be very interested/attracted to you. And if you do this and completely direct the questions and steer towards a final goal, you will ABSOLUTELY be in control of the situation, literally steering her emotions based on what topic you aim your questions at.

Feel free to disagree or ask questions about any points I have made, but that's my philosophy!

-Mike

quick question on intrigue:

What's the difference between being a complex character and being incongruent? It's said to always be congruent in character...but if you happen to be in a completely different mood than the last time that = complexity. Doesn't that mood shift also fall under incongruence though?

Here's my thought- I wouldn't worry about all of that "be congruent in character" stuff. I would much rather intrigue a woman by being an enigma that they can't figure out than being boring. I'm guessing that being "congruent in character" is more dealing with big issues, like being an overall generous person. You shouldn't be generous at one point and then be stingy at another. On the other hand, in the first interactions with a woman, I really don't think its practical to worry about "being congruent. Instead, think about making her laugh, intriguing her, negging, ect ect.

In other words I just don't think "be congruent" is a very practical application to the very initial stages of attraction. If you're thinking about that, you could better spend your time thinking about something more important like listening to her, making her laugh, ect.

Also, if you are being relatively sincere, you really don't need to worry about "being congruent," because you almost always will be. The biggest case of not being congruent is if you lie about how generous you are and then later she finds out your not. I don't run into this situation because I have no need to validate myself to a woman. So I will never brag about how generous (or another quality) I am. If anything, sometimes I will disqualify myself purposely by saying "I'm not a very nice (or generous) guy." This shows them you don't care about what they think, and it actually works better than claiming you are nice or generous.

In summary, I would interpret "being congruent" with larger qualities. As long as you don't bullshit too much about yourself (which is really pointless anyway), you won't ever be "non-congruent." So you can still switch up you mood, go from asshole to charismatic, and create that intrigue in the girl. And in doing so, you are still congruent.

I mean, its not like someone who is congruent never has mood changes. That congruent person still gets mad and still gets happy, and everything in between. So you can have those mood changes (asshole/playful to charismatic and caring) without messing up congruence, because congruence deals with your larger character traits.

This is just my interpretation! And again, my thought is DON'T even worry about congruence. Thats the problem with Green's book, its great, but it can make you think a little too much. The practical things are making her laugh, listening to her, learning how to be a storyteller, negging, ect.

Practice the practical things (and I mean GET out there and practice practice practice) and don't worry too much about the deep deep psychology or theory. I used to sit home and overanalyze theories about attraction all day long, which was a bad idea. Now I analyze a little, but I spend most of my time practicing, practicing, practicing in public, all of the practical things I have learned.