Nobody says that you can seduce all or almost all girls you game. It just increases your chances to show that you are funny/interesting/cool or whatever guy. Lets say you go direct and girl thinks - oh wtf this average joe or ugly dude is doing here, go away. You don't have time to show that you are actually cool guy to be with.
Lets say you are in the room and there are 100 girls and 5 of them likes you right away. Now if you game all of them you may get 10 more to like you. So no its not that you can make "all of the girls" like you, its just a small percentage, but still you would not have a chance with those 10 if you went direct (because they did not like you as for the first impression)
*numbers are just random, to show that noone is saying that you can sleep with all the girls you game.
Here it goes, Mystery. You admit that he is so used to positive responses. Why? Because he games them and makes them to like him. Do you think a guy like mystery would be so used to good responses if he just went direct? I bet the percentage of positive responses would be lower than he has now..


Basicly if that was "either she likes you or not" this forum and whole PUA movement would be useless. Why learn anything if its "either she likes you or not" - just go to her and say hi, show your smarts/funny talk and thats it... Well there is aproach anxiety - so just leave aproach anxiety forum and everything else is useless...

Whatever you like. Personally I got just as many results using indirect stuff... and I got just as many negative responses aswell. It just took longer to pull the trigger and receive those responses, the girls were more polite about it, and were left with a good impression. They thought I was a really nice guy, and this is why indirect is so appealing to those with not-so-strong inner game. They don't have to worry about girls thinking they're just another guy hitting on them. They're being different and the girls are left smiling nomatter what... they say nice things to their friends, and are not the least bit threatened. It doesn't matter if the guy gets rejected cos the girls still like him. Just not in that way.

Oh yeah, and going back to Mystery - sure, he's used to positive responses. That's what this stuff is for. It serves to avoid harsh rejections and criticisms. It doesn't relieve you of having to deal with negative reactions and responses, it just makes them easier to handle because you're not being criticised in a subjective manner. You're a nice guy and they don't wanna hurt your feelings, so they go easy on you. It's nice and easy. He was a little too used to this and when faced with a woman who rejected and ignored him it was too much to take cos he was so used to being liked by everyone. It wasn't because he slept with every girl he met, it's because he made a good impression on each and every one regardless - and when this woman started ignoring him and telling him she didn't want anything to do with him it was such a shock to his system that he almost totally shut down. When I approach a girl I'm attracted to, I don't want to just be liked. I have enough friends already, I'm not gonna pretend like that's all I want. Not for one second... I know what I want and I'm not afraid to say it. Fuck what people think - you can't please everyone and when you try, you only end up pissing off more people in the long run.


I feel a breakdown is necessary, because unless I break this stuff down into every possible outcome some people will just not get it.

First, indirect game. If the girl has some form of attraction towards you in the first place, it goes like this: you approach, reach a hook point by using an opinion opener or something else which grabs their attention, build attraction and comfort while showing active disinterest and using push/pull, then after a while you isolate. Result.

Now, what if she doesn't feel attraction towards you? It's just as above, except that you can't build upon that attraction (because it's not there). Instead, you only build comfort. You will not isolate this girl unless her friends push her into it, and when it comes to kissing her she won't go with it. You'll be told how nice you are, but she's getting back with her boyfriend and doesn't want to, or some similar excuse which doesn't bruise your ego. You now have two choices: push no further so as not to ruin the comfort, or persist and get blown out.

And now for something completely different. Direct game. Again, we'll start by examining this from the perspective that she already has some form of attraction towards you. You approach, and use some form of situational or observational opener. You let her know why you approached her (as if she didn't know already), then you find out a bit about each other and build rapport - you're on the same page, she knows what you want and has displayed that she wants the same thing. By staying to talk with you or test you after your initial approach and SOI, she is reciprocating your interest. You don't need to focus on building attraction or comfort, this just happens as you talk... the conversation is geared towards reaching a common goal right from the start. It's productive, you both know where you stand, and there are no head games or fucking around. Of course flying under the radar is productive aswell; you just don't get to this stage of conversation until after you've kissed her. That's the only real difference.

And last but not least, you go direct and she isn't interested in you... well, she simply walks off and you don't have to waste any more time on her. You didn't concern yourself with reaching a hook point or using tricks to make sure she liked you before you stated your intentions - you just did it. On top of this, she tells her friends - not about how nice a guy you are, but how forward you are. Women like balls. Not to mention that there's something about a man who don't care about what other people think of him that really turns them on. I dunno why that is, but there's definately truth to it. One of her friends will get curious and start talking to you. The ball is in your court and you can do what you wish with this situation. It's win-win.

I've seen both sides of the coin. This is all from my personal experience, so argue all you like... it changes nothing as far as I'm concerned. All I wanna do is open some eyes to the other possibilities, the world outside of the people-pleasing nice guy stuff.

Thats some deep sh** lol

Good post solomon, though I don't know if I agree or not.. im not experienced enough to make a solid judgment.

The thing is, that's the charm of the pua community. Which is, if you get rejected.. it's because you messed up your body language, said something wrong, didn't kino enough.. etc. As opposed your black and white view of attraction. I'd like to think that just as attraction is sometimes instant, it can also be destroyed or created.

You can say things to destroy any attraction you had before... likewise you can create attraction that didn't exist before, all through what you say, being interesting... etc. (doing all the pua stuff).

But what you're saying is that if she's not attracted to you to begin with.. you should just give up and move on, because its impossible to do and say things that'll make her attracted to you.

However, that's the principle of indirect game, is to build attraction through prolonged interaction.. which goes back to the real allure that the pua community possess... the possibility that any afc/chode and can finally be that guy that woman of quality desire.

Anyways, I'm not speaking from experience obviously.. just staying my perspective which is based on what I've read and heard of from other puas etc.

Great post, I havn't seen jack on direct game, and for me, direct game has been a lot of my success! Its not that its difficult with indirect, but I have a lot of trouble phase shifting, especially over the time of longer than 2 hours.

Question : With direct game, you can pretty much say how you feel about her in the time period of twenty seconds, so you're going to need something to keep the conversation going.

I've heard that combining indirect and direct is a great way to come off insecure and not really stable in the mind.

So with direct game what kind of tactics, techniques and conversations do you have that keep the conversation alive and interesting, but don't come off as insecure?

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Tyler Durden: F off with your sofa units and strine green stripe patterns, I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say let... lets evolve, let the chips fall where they may.

Redpill, attraction can be created but there are different types of attraction. You can make a girl like you, but when I say you can't make a girl who isn't attracted to you become attracted... what I mean is you can't make a girl who doesn't wanna fuck you, wanna fuck you. She might like you and think youre fun, and she might see you as physically attractive aswell, but sometimes there's just something missing. It's not your body language or your eye contact, it's not your tonality... it's just that you're not her type. I know this is hard to understand, but trust me.

I've seen guys run sets really well. They were relaxed, having fun, everything was smooth and natural and there were no awkward pauses or weird moments. The girls were laughing and giving them kino and all that good stuff, qualifying, everything... then they've isolated the girl they liked no problem, done whatever routine, and when it came to kissing, they got a polite declination. "I might be getting back with my boyfriend" is a common excuse. It's even happened to me, and it's weird. "What the fuck did I do wrong? I need to calibrate..." - no, I didn't need to calibrate. Because I'd done the exact same thing before and had the girl kiss me like her life depended on it. It's because the girls who did kiss me, I was their type. I really can't explain it.
Actually, I have combined direct with indirect before. I've approached girls with genuine questions, because I needed help finding a certain place or wanted help with something in a shop or whatever, then made a bit of small talk and told her she seemed cool and I wanted to get together some time. Many would say that falls more under indirect, but because I didn't bother with qualification or making sure she was into me before suggesting getting together that makes it direct. So, I used an indirect approach then just went straight for it after I got the help I needed. That makes sense, right?

Anyway, as for what to talk about... here's the thing, you don't have to talk about anything other than what you want and how to get it. Keeping the conversation going is something people who don't know how to get to the point are concerned with... they wanna build rapport, make her comfortable, talk about stuff so they can find out a bit about each other and establish a connection before making their intentions clear. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but it's not something you should be worrying about because the whole idea of going direct is to cut all of that crap out. If you can't think of something interesting to talk about it means you don't need to be talking about it.

Make your intentions clear, ask when she's free (call her out on her bullshit if necessary), sort that stuff out first... then you can have a conversation and make small talk if you want. This is entirely situational, talk about anything that comes to mind or whatever your surroundings offer you. You could talk to her for ages and get to know her, but then what are you gonna talk about when you get together? I actually make that exact point, and girls always agree. If they wanna get to know you, they'll meet you. Simple as that.

I actually find that girls pretty much hand you a lot of conversation because of the way they test you, which is lots of fun. When you suggest getting together right off the bat, their social conditioning kicks in and they start to test you like a motherfucker:

- "Are you serious?"
- "Do you talk to girls like this all the time?"
- "But I don't even know you!"
- "Are you always this forward?"

And so on. The easiest way to deal with tests like this is with straightforward honesty, oh yeah and keeping your answers short. You don't need super smooth answers. Also, answering questions with questions is great for putting her on the spot, esecially if she's expecting you to get defensive over something.

Her: "Are you serious?"
You: "Yep."

Her: "Do you talk to girls like this all the time?"
You: "Does it make a difference?"

Her: "But I don't even know you!"
You: "And?"

Her: "Are you always this forward?"
You: "Why, do you like it?" (just saying "yep" with a smile works too.)

It's a simple rule, but if you're not sure about these or the followup questions she might ask, give me a list and I'll tell you how to deal with them and why.