Being interesting is nothing to do with being attractive to her. In order to have girls attracted towards you and be seduced by your general presence and way of being, there is 2 things...

Being polarizing in your body language and communication
And making emotional impact via your conversation.

You can talk to a girl about the fucking weather and have her panties wet. Or you can tell her about all the awesome shit you do...which sure, it can be interesting, but when it comes to her wanting to be sexually intimate with you, makes no difference, and can even serve to turn her off.

I wrote an article about the difference between social conversation and seductive conversation which you may find helpful mate. It's on my blog at the website in my sig. It's called "how to hold a conversation like a man"

Hope you get something beneficial from it.
Chris

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I'm not saying, don't bother being sexual or direct. I'm just saying most girls will look at you like an idiot if you don't try and match the verbal content to the non-verbal - unless they really, REALLY just. want. sex. Just imagine, you're in a nightclub, absolutely smashed, and you go over to some girls in the smoking area. Socially, you're uninhibited, you don't give a fuck. Ok you might be wobbling a bit and that might take away from your usual charismatic poise but on the whole you know you've got the balls to be a lot more sexual and from the outset. More so than you would under most circumstances. Well...the reason this doesn't work in most situations is because the confidence boost this gives you doesn't provide any momentum to your OVERALL game (why? because the shift in social inhibition with alcohol is rapid and not congruent to your overall growth as a human being). You are demonstrating intent but not in a way that can be communicated meaningfully. That is my number one criticism of the way the PUA community seems to have evolved: nowadays, the focus is almost on inner game and self-esteem building as if that is something that comes to you magically. On the other hand, there is very little emphasis on demonstrating your true value in an essentially human manner, i.e. TALKING to a girl without having to resort to monkey noises because you're as retarded as I am and read as much intellectually bankrupt material as I have.

Thing is, a lot of guys like you are successful with women but they don't understand the real reasons for it. They just have a lot of vague guesses. The first time you ask them, you guys will just say something like "oh, umm...confidence, I guess" and then after being asked a lot, you'll start to refine your answer and talk about 'directness', 'conveying sexual intent' and all this other theory. But the basic reason is because you became an interesting person and had interesting shit to convey. I'm sure you say it with the best of intentions and you genuinely want to help guys like me but the truth is that game is not something you can just switch on and off like a light bulb. It is such a myth - the 'confidence' myth - and it's harmful because it feeds into the 'RESULTS. NOW.' mindset that most people have nowadays, preferring short-cuts and cheat methods to repetitive and consistent effort to improve themselves as a whole.

I'll check the video out in a bit but I can't seem to find it anywhere on masculine intent.

You really are pessimistic git aren't you? lol

You say that going direct doesn't work, despite a copious amount of evident LR's on direct game and some personal experiences from myself...

Your problem seems to be, that you think that pick up is linear thing.

I do agree that most pick up guys do not actually know the real reason why they attracted a girl. Often they will credit the routine, line, sexual frame and all that other bollocks that doesn't matter.

For me, pick up is find the girls that dig you. Then do not fuck.it.up. Simple as that. The neutral girls need a little game to turn her interested and then do not.fuck.it.up. (Don't waste another second on uninterested girls)

With you, it seems that you rejected off 5 girls and then you suddenly have this rock solid opinion that it 'doesn't work' and are trying to find the magic line that will work non all girls which do not exist.

Find the girls that like you, whilst improving yourself each day. This can be anything, financially, fashion, gym, inner worth, entitlement, peace, etc etc etc.

EXPECT TO GET MORE REJECTION THAN RESULTS.

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I genuinely dont even know where to start!

There are SO many cracks and HUGE(almost angry) misconceptions in what you are writing man.

What I will say is that I SUCKED with girls and game, until I eventually simplified shit and sorted myself out...combined with deep understanding of what women ACTUALLY respond to!


This is not about what "works". Because if your trying to make something work, it means you are trying to get/take something rather than sharing/offering and inviting. Yes they are words...but your relationship to all this is so fucking important.

I know how I am good with girls...why I get results...and what I must do, which is why I have been actively teaching this to men on a 1 on 1 basis for 4 years, with very successful results.

Direct and Indirect is game. They are techniques designed to appear a certain way and aquire something you need!
I don't do or teach game. I teach men to be seductive leaders of their own reality. Once you generate self reliance and trust, combine it with simple practical know how...no more game! No more "approaching". You bring something else to a woman she does not meet often...if ever.

This is not about being the best. This is about owning your shit, flaws and all and still going for what you want from a loving, generous and abundant mindset.

You are playing a game that has be designed for you by other weak individuals. If a man is using another mans rules and structures for getting girls...then you are owned already by limiting results.

Make your own game and only play that. Invite women and people into your playing field where the rules are very simple and straight forward. You are the referee the players, the manager, the fucking stadium.

Until you remove yourself from all this incredibly detrimental way of thinking, any advice or tips to set you free will not even be heard.

I was in that game...and it's nothing but pain and stress.

This is not a bunch of inner game hocus pocus. What the fuck is inner game. This is YOU as an idividual. Everything is linked. And practicality can be applied everywhere.

The rat race mentality will keep you in the rat race. Competing with the others.

You know what is most attractive in a man...inner freedom. When women see your freedom...they want to taste it! You can't polish a turd with lines, techniques and routines.

I'm not here to prove my way or anyway to you. But what my intention is, is that you may realize there's more to this. A completely different way of interacting...and it's incredibly effortless.

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I've been rejected more than 5 times LOL. And self-improvement? Please, don't get me started I've been working on myself as a whole for a LONG time. Clubbing, free weights, jazz improv, dubstep, yoga, politics, MMA, systema, surfing, philosophy, travelling...you fucking name it, I've done it, mate. I'm an interesting, good looking guy that keeps in shape, so I should be getting results by most people's estimation.

I have a friend I've known for nearly ten years now. Every time I see him, he's like,

"JHA, have you got a girlfriend yet? What I can't believe you don't have a girlfriend, how can you not have a girlfriend yet?"

And I don't know what to fucking tell him, do I? Do I just tell him most girls are just hussies and don't notice talent when it hits them in the face? Do I just tell him I'm a shy, socially retarded pussy or fucking what!?

I'm telling you the problem is with COMMUNICATION, all of this inner-game pseudoscience is just plain voodoo. Women love hearing about cool shit and solid humour: they want to hear a story, and they want to hear references, I'm telling you.
Evidently this is the case, I've known it for ages.

And I'm not looking for one magic line, either. I just want to say cool, interesting shit off the fly rather than looking like a retard who just goes up to girls making goo-goos and ga-ga noises. Maybe I could handle rejection a bit better if I thought I actually looked like a pretty cool, confident guy that went over rather than some dweeb that read some shit about apocalypse opener and Eckhart Tolle then thought he had some magic power that would get him pussy through the magic psychic content of what's on his mind.
What is that word for that thingamajig, you know ... where you go up to a woman and say or do something that demonstrates you're interested in her and would like to maybe hang out later ... possibly stick your penis into her vajayjay.

Sorry..."approach" is the only word that comes to mind right now. Maybe I'm just stupid.

Or perhaps I like to state things as they are without unnecessary ambiguities and quotation marks.
I do, it's called: "I talk to you, you talk to me back; if you ignore me, I ignore you and don't expect any validation from me".
Good, I sincerely hope so. If I come across it, I'll probably stop posting mundane shit on here.

Your telling me something I already have the answer to...and what you are telling me is not true. You are telling me what women love and what they want....but you are not getting results??

You seem pretty confirmed on something you are not getting results in?

I get consistent results now, when before i never did and was afraid to even leave my house. Surely my version of what i assume women actually desire and respond to is rooted in a bit more certainty and reality? Especially when it is backed up by many many guys who once had issues...now no longer have issues?
Thats my qeue to leave. Best of luck though mate.
Chris

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Oh, before I go...heres the article I was talking about. Im just going to post the link here. If its breaking forum rules than il just delete it straight away.

http://www.masculineintent.com/how-to-h ... ike-a-man/

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Just to clarify, I have left too.

His vibe is rubbing off on me and most likely with the girls that he meets

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Ok, so you guys are both leaving ... fine. But the record needs to be ironed out on a few details.

Believe it or not, my irritation in this thread started with you Pebbles because you seem to be posting pretty brash and sweeping / generalising remarks in a lot of my threads lately. These are the kinds of comments that demonstrate you either have difficulties with reading comprehension or you just can't be arsed reading my posts. Not sure which is worse. Sadly, it is possible that this put me into a negative frame of mind for my discussion with Chris but this is a weakness on my own behalf for which I take full responsibility.

Back to 'directness': none of the wings I've been out with think I have a problem being 'direct', I've just spent a night out approaching left, right and centre. Guys, do you know as I sit here typing now, I have a scratch mark on my head like a bee sting because some dumb girl was playing stupid fucked up mind games on the dance floor. She kept trying to push my head down and I pulled her hand off repeatedly until she scratched my head. Could I have gotten results with this girl? No...why? Because the only reason she kept coming over was to seek male validation. I was using push-pull methods on the dance floor, pulling her in for a kiss then pushing her away playfully when she was playing hard to get. She kept on and on coming back for more until the situation got out of control and I had to tell her to fuck off.

The point of mentioning this is because she wasn't interested in contrivance from me because I was indirect. She kept coming over because she was impressed by my ballsy opener and because I was even willing to play her stupid head games to an extent until I got annoyed. None of my wingmen tonight thought that I was indirect. Nobody thought that I was moving in for the approach like a shy pussy.

But verbal content? Yes, my verbal content HAS been criticised when I tell wings what lines I'm typically using.

"HEY YOU, yes - YOU. You are absolutely gorgeous...marry me."

So that is how I know that direct is a crock of shite.

This article you post is actually a good one ... funny that in the conversation dialogue you have to talk about THINGS, yes THINGS with the woman. That is how conversation generally works: words act as verbal reference points to outside concepts - both material things (such as hobbies, places and people) as well as abstract things (such as values, emotions and logic).

How you are supposed to have a conversation without referring to things OUTSIDE the conversation is beyond me. We are dogs and our mode of communication is not limited to barks, growls and fart noises. So why the pick-up community fails to recognise this is totally absurd.

Do I believe in canned material, openers and routines? No I don't. Do I think that non-verbal communication is unimportant? Absolutely not.

I just believe that there needs to be stronger emphasis on verbal improvisational elements and conveying QUALITY through INTERESTING CONVERSATION within the PUA community. It's no coincidence that most beginners have a hard time knowing what to say, so stop shrugging off their concerns / treating them as irrelevant. They are like that because language has evolved from a primape status of grunting into a beautiful art form. We are socialised to have language filters because this is a necessary stage in the evolution of language.

What I describe could actually be a natural trend in the community since focus on 'canned material and routines' in the Game has shifted through to the RSD trends of NLP, frame-control and inner game. It seems to me that the next logical paradigm is to shift the focus back on to the verbal element but in the natural way that I discuss above, and without neglecting the importance of what RSD has taught us.

And yes, the 'how to hold a conversation like a man' article has good suggestions in it, so thank you. I actually highly empathise with your distrusting of what you describe as 'social conversation' (not all social conversation has to be like that but I digress). When I was an adolescent a lot of my OWN social difficulties were a result of simply disliking this highly false and insincere form of human interaction. I never developed agoraphobia but I was driven away from many of the so called 'social niceties' and my own friendship circles suffered as a result of my general apathy. I also agree with the importance you put on so-called 'awkard' silences and eye-contact. Like I said earlier, I am in NO WAY disregarding the importance of non-verbal communication.

The thing is, the suggestions you make in this article simply aren't good for the reason you seem to think they are. I just think this conversation would have been far more productive if you guys had used suggestions like Black Phantom did and you would be surprised at how willing I am to put generally constructive / workable ideas into practice.

Well, thanks for your insight, I guess. This discussion has helped me to refine a few of my own ideas and philosophy about pick-up if nothing else.

Hey.

My intention is always to give value and help, educate. There is only so much communication I can do via text.

If you would like...i am willing to speak with you for a SPAM session of 30 minutes free of charge.

If you would like to chat about this and maybe i can help steer you in a beneficial way...or not.

My SPAM name is chrisbale66.

Feel free to add me and we can arrange a time,
Chris

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Chris, not sure if it was this thread or another thread (or maybe from the video?) where you said that men tend to fail with women with this mind-set that they are not "OK with what they are doing". So the approach/conversation comes off as incongruent and is confusing to the female..

My issue isn't with not being OK with what I want to share with them, what my goals/intentions are in interactions with females (to find one that I want to have a meaningful relationship with) but moreover not being OK with being rejected and the general awkwardness that comes after the "No".

This arises a lot with me since I tend to go for girls that I've had multiple interactions with and will see them again. Once the 'no' is out there.. then it's there. Is it all about just not being outcome dependent and if the No happens, don't let it affect you, or your frame/state and act as if there is no awkwardness or disadvantage to being told no by a girl you have an interest in?

Hey mate,

Actually I would like to thank you for your contribution to this thread and apologise for my own negative tone. I am not always this negative/cynical. I seem to go through ups and downs in my life and sometimes I have shit on my chest that I feel compelled to unload so please don't take it personally that you caught me after a bad night out. I will have to decline your offer, generous though it is, because I believe that the general vibe between us would be uncomfortable, given the context of this thread and I also generally reject freebies like this because I am unlikely to pay for full time services when it comes to dating advice. So for these reasons, it would be a waste of both our times.

Thanks again though.

I would like to update my 'observational' diary since I have not ejected from posting in my own thread, lol. I know that a lot of people who have seen my posts in threads like these think I'm a douchebag. I get it. I know I'm a cynical arsehole. But if you take the time to read what I'm about to post and think it worthy to post your own insights I can guarantee it will be beneficial to literally anybody reading the thread, including yourself. Well, that is just my two cents, you can take it or leave it.

Before I post up today's observations, I should clarify something: I am not somebody that sits around in coffee shops hiding behind a pen and paper. I am somebody that has gone out there and continues to get out there and approach in a significant volume with mixed responses. If you don't believe me, check my journal in the signature link. Due to these mixed responses, I am now looking to REFINE my approach using techniques such as what Black Phantom has suggested.

Here are the observations:

MONDAY 18/05/2015

Sat in Starbucks, late afternoon. Quite crowded, I am sat behind a pillar, so can't see everyone but there are a few cute chicks in sight. Will probably move upstairs once I've had my refill, perhaps even USE a few of these opening lines...or not.

At 9 o'clock, on the other side of the pillar, two girls are sat, both of them in leather jackets - a brown one (BrJ) and a black one (BlJ). BlJ seems to be mixed race, although it is possible she just has a dark complexion. Hispanic? Indian/pakistani, perhaps? Her friend is white. She has a purple polka dot dress - very cute - and they are both wearing flats. BlJ is wearing converse flats. They haven't stopped talking/chewing the fat since I got here, so I'm assuming the have a close relationship ... and damn, they've just gone before I had a chance to think of any lines. Maybe I could have said:

- Hey you two seem close, know how I know? Because you haven't stopped talking since I got here. Most people have a few awkward silences. Or maybe some people will talk in a loud, competitive manner but not you two: you guys are just sat here engaging in pleasant social niceties. Pleased to meet you.

Two blondes sat on the other side of the cafe: Bl1 and Bl2. Bl1 is sat at a curious angle to Bl2 who is simply sat on the couch (more comfortable than the hard back chair which Bl2 is sat on.

Interesting that you are sat like that, Bl2. You know, the psychology of body language states that sitting on opposite sides of a table is confrontational whereas being positioned right next to someone can be overly intimate, showing disregard for that person's comfort zone. The way you are seated now, however - that demonstrates familiarity without being overly invasive. It is quite rare to see someone choose such a position, I thought you might be interested to know.

She also has her feet on the couch, leaning back.

Hey, you know - that is so inconsiderate: you're ruining my chair! Other people might want to sit somewhere that's clean and end up sitting where you've just put your feet. Put them down! Put them down ... NOW! Nah I'm just kidding, you can put them back. My name's JHA91, pleased to meet you.

Ok, finished my first coffee and have headed upstairs to get a refill and relocate. It's a lot busier up here and more exposed where I am sitting, hence I have my hand over a lot of what I'm writing. A cute girl just left Starbuck's ... DAMN! Well no worries, because there are plenty of others.

Cute, mousey librarian girl next to the window ... her nose is buried in a train timetable ... and I have the perfect line, except now she is packing up!

You know, most people would prefer to people-watch if they are sat next to a window, but not you! You seem more interested in all your little books and pamphlets ... can I say that is TOTALLY adorable. I think you're cute and just had to come over and say hi. By the way ... is that a frappucino you're drinking? I've always wondered what it was ... looks fancy!

Two Indian or Pakisatni girls sat on the other side of a pillar I am sat next to. I have to lean forwards to see them. They have two hot chocolates and half-eaten brownies on the table, they must have a sweet tooth. I want to ask them:

Do you always eat your desert so slow, or do you just prefer to savour the taste?

You must have a sweet tooth, all that hot chocolate and cake ... well I'm sweet, heck, I'm like CANDY.

One of them also has a subtle dark red hair-dye which suits her over all style. Experience has taught me not to comment on attributes such as these, however, because they are too obvious.

Curly haired girl on the other side of the room. Not really my type but she will do for observation purposes. She has her headphones on and is focussed anti-socially on her laptop, which is fine by me: not everyone comes to Starbucks to chew the fat with strangers. I could totally bust her balls for it regardless though. If I wanted to ... I wish I could think of something more interesting but right now, I'm running dry on ideas and my coffee is going cold so I'm probably going to drink up and head off ...

Au revoir!


CONCLUSION
I know a lot of guys, including Chris Bale and Pebbles disagree that any significant focus needs to be put on the verbal content of game, but it is simply the case for me that field experience has taught me different. Perhaps it is because we are not all the same and different things work for different people, so perhaps Chris and Pebbles are not WRONG per se in this thread. It is simply MY OPINION that verbal game requires an equal contribution of effort as non-verbal game and this has been my experience of approaching girls on the streets and in night clubs for three years, with the standard mentality of the community. I DO believe in the power of conveying intent and being direct / honest with a woman. I do ALSO believe that canned lines / routines are ineffective. What it is I appreciate about verbal game (in the context of a spontaneous and essentially human interaction) is that this is that if you want to truly demonstrate your value as a well-rounded and creative human being with plenty of reference points AND generate thought provoking conversation then this is quite simply the greatest weapon in your arsenal.
I'm probably not the guy you want to take advice from in this thread but what I will say works for me is just make the situation humorous. When they are rude bitchy, sometimes I just walk off and I'm like

"Aaaaawkard."

And I really don't give a fuck who hears me.

Other times, they point blank ignore me, so I just say something like,

"Damn, it's like talking to a WALL."

When they're nice, I'll click my fingers point to the ground, and say,

"Damn...well it was nice meeting you."

Just think of a few lines that defuse awkward situations. They do work, trust me.

Above all, maintain a strong frame: never walk away from a set feeling dejected and acting like they got the upper hand. I used to do this a lot, until I puppy trained myself to take every single rejection with a pinch of salt.

Even better yet: focus on how you will respond when they ACCEPT your approach. This way you are more likely to generate a positive vibe that will get better results. Well those are my tips as a guy with a LOT of field experience doing cold approaches and some moderate success, and my learning curve is on fire at the moment. Hope these tips are helpful.

thank you

You can approach a girl indirectly and just start up a conversation with her. I was just at my Nephews graduation and I approached on of the Teachers after the graduation. I said,"I just saw the recent Fast and Furious movie and it was really good, have you seen it?" She responded and then I said,"What was the last movie you saw that made you say Damn that was a good movie?" That opened the door and I eventually got her number. It's just an easy, non threatening approach.

A more direct approach is telling a girl she has a creative energy to her then fish for what she does that's creative like her job or maybe a hobby.

You can also try humor and use something corny. When I lived in Nashville, TN I approached a girl who was in the food court and I said,"You know, you remind me of a song we use to sing when I was little, what's your name?" She said Carla and I started singing Jay and Carla sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g, first comes love... She laughed when I finished and said she use to tease her sister with that song. There was an instant connection and we spent the day together.

So there's different approaches and when you find one or two that work well stick with them for the most part.

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