Hi, I am actually relatively experienced in my game, but after noticing that I was still having problems with HB9's and 10's, I rewatched some mystery videos and I have recently practiced much more disinterested body language in my openers.

Last night there was at least one time where I opened a HB9 and I body rocked away to show my disinterest in the girl, and then she kind of closed her body language too, instead of opening up and pursuing me more. My opener was situational and not the greatest opener, so maybe that was the problem. But I believe I've had this happen a couple other times.

So I'm wondering, CAN you show too much disinterest with your body language in your opener? And is there any way to save the situation if you bodyrock out only to have the girl close her body language too? Then its really hard to come back because now it really will look very needy if you tap her on the shoulder and try to start another routine.

Thanks for your thoughts

Thinking in terms of damage control as if there is already a problem you have to correct by negging a woman or showing disinterest in her is not the only mindset one can have success with. If you chose to approach a woman and engage her in dialouge and show disinterest, although successful, it can easily come off as incongruent; imagine if a woman came up to you, asked you a question, showed disinterest in you and kept engaging in the conversation. The issue with these techinques is farther a person moves away from natural behaviors the harder things become.

In reality having a good time with a girl is about all you have to do. The better you make them feel, the more they'll want to be around you. Think of a cat that has gotten beaten all of it's life. The only human contact they have is someone throwing a rock at them. Trust me that cat isn't going to stay there too long. The same with human beings. A sadistic guy will control his girl but she will resent him for it. Women can take a lot of shit and sometimes don't know how to leave guys like these, but the majority don't stick around for too long.

I've known dudes like this. Their actions are fucking bizzare in a way where a normal human wouldn't behave the way they would. They play out the dominance role too frictionally. Too aggresively. As if they get off on the power play; I've seen dudes go fucking crazy trying to control a fine woman.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am dominant and girls do get off on being dominated by a man, but arrogance, or at least creating a power struggle and acting like you're better than a woman by showing disinterest, is just taking things too far. Fuck that.

- Chris

I see your point about being upbeat and positive but body rocking is crucial for a sucessful approach.

My bad is habit is body rocking TOO LONG.

It also should not be done acrobatically, but subtely.

Mystery says that after 30-60 seconds you should be facing the set.

I would venture to guess you are still rocking after this time table.

This is true it is crucial but only if you're going indirect. Plenty of men have had great success with direct approaches with no falsified body language whatsoever.

Hell, one time I walked up to a woman who was giving her opinion on who lies more and for shits and giggles just to see what would happen; she thought this guy was just looking for a neutral opinion and I confidently walked up, placed my hand on her shoulder softly but confidently then turned her around and said, "You're dead sexy; I want to meet you."

Suffice to say she was dumbstruck by my baltantly direct confidence and approach and her attention immediatley wandered from the seemingly AFC guy asking her for her opinion over too me the same way a Mystery Method pick-up artist can pull attention from a real AFC. She stopped even noticing the PUA and put all her attention on me because I reached her on a sexual level quickly; he'd been blown out by someone quicker and more alpha and he knew it. If had tried to reveal his interest to her after the opinion opener he would have come off as a major AFC. He was blown out by a direct, confident guy and he knew it.

This is true but it comes with being an actor. You've got more to learn if you're putting on a show. Not that it's necessarily worse but it comes with the territory of the technique.
Agree! It needs to appeal as subconciously as possible.
Honestly to me Mystery is a performer; he was putting on acting performances as a magician and he is putting on acting performances playing the role of an alpha male. The more techniques and subtleties that man has to teach the money he can make.
After years of Mystery Method I gave up rocking, negging, false-anything, befriending AMOGs, ect. All I use these days is my blatant honestly; I want something I get in there as the dominant alpha and take it.

I have seen a lot of the old techniques, such as Mystery Method, turn quality men into robots. I see guys who just needed a little bit of confidence and few tweaks, turn into peacocking douche-bags who creep out a put of more women than they attract.

That being said, there is a way to be powerfully interested in a woman. Approaching is a demonstration of strength, not weakness. Trying too hard to stick to routines and look disinterested IS a sign of weakness.

It is true. You don't need to drop $5k on a Scientologyesque super system of PUA. A powerful inner game and firm understanding of the fundamentals will allow experience to improve your game. In the meantime, only look disinterested if you are disinterested.

_________________
PUARevolution.blogspot.com

OctavianusPUA:

I am still a bit ambivalent regarding your post and blog (which is very good by the way).

I am a true beleiver of the MM and this is why:

1. Although there are certain practical applications that are now popularized, the fundamental evolutionary underpinnings are immortal.

2. I have had great success in two cities using MM.

3. Direct game (even with congruence) seems ineffectual and reliant on physical attraction.

To each his own, but I would be weary of writing off MM completely.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look at my blog. I am actually a huge fan of Mystery Method and Mystery. I think that his innovations are fantastic and that the game would not be what it is today without him. I also agree that the fundamentals of his system are dead-on. Having said that, I believe that me must stay critical in order to keep advancing the game further. I also believe that far too many PUA's have gotten too caught up in the bells and whistles of Mystery Method and have strayed wildly from its core theories. The underpinnings of this game have allowed many radically different personalities to rise to the level of mastery, and it is this ideal that should be aspired to. Mystery himself states that his method should be used as a means through which to develop one's OWN game. It is in this spirit that I advocate a wide and diverse approach to the game that isn't married to one style or one time.

Post your objections on my blog as well. I'm sure my readers would love to hear your insight.

_________________
PUARevolution.blogspot.com

I like you're ideas Octavianus. You seem to have a very open-mind to pick-up.

Mystery's once $500 personal seminars in the early half of the decade have become full-blown $6000 boot camps. Today the Mystery Method is glorified as a sort of godly revolution that will solve all of one's life problems as can be seen in Mike Long's recent emails and the way Mystery overhypes his new methods. For those of you who used the glorified $2000+ Mind of Mystery set you will know what I mean about overglorification.

One thing that struck me in your blog was the number of behavioral rules PUAs are have to follow for success. If PUAs were real they wouldn't have to adjust to popular culture's awareness of the community because they would be 100% naturally attractive; they wouldn't get recognized as anything other than themselves.

I've said it many times but women are not stupid and they know when something's up. Even if they don't fully understand an opinion opener and what a guy's ulterior motive is this is why a woman puts her bitch shield on guard because if a guy is not upfront with a woman he could have any number of ulterior motives; robbery, rape, abuse even murder and she is programmed to protect herself against these threats.

Without their routines (self-created or otherwise) they are powerless because they have no true inner power to attract women without the blanket of negs, FTC, False disqualifiers. When you're honest, direct (an naturally alpha) about your intentions you will not encounter bitch shields because just as you are not putting on a persona she will not put on a persona either.

What disturbed me when I decided to drop Mystery Method was that I noticed naturals made their attractivness an extension of their natural personality; they didn't have to make any effort to be attractive the way I was doing and I realized that if they had the right to have things be that simple and easy than I should as well.
This line struck me because many naturals I have talked to will tell you that using routines or having to plan behavior to attract a woman is beneath them. MM PUAs are regarded in their eyes as miniscule imitators. The only way to change your personality and become a true leader and alpha male in every aspect of life is to change YOUR behavior not create an alternate, peacocked, negging, false-this-and-thating persona to do it for you.

To me it seems that Mystery is really saying his method of creating an fake alter-ego should be used by others as a means to create their own alter-ego.

It's really a matter of asking yourself whether you want to have things natural and efforless; I got sick of thinking about how to behavior and going on message boards asking other guys how I should act to supplicate a woman into being attarcted to me.

If one truly aspires get the bets for themselves and the women and people around them. There should be a "style" of picking up women the "style" of being attractive should be nothing more than a person's own personality. While physical attraction certainly helps, going direct is not so much about physical attraction as it is about your opener attacking her alpha switches aggressively and in doing so going from a 5, 6 or 7 to a 10. Remember that your looks, although important are her second priority in evolutionary programming. Your alpha behavior is her first priority in looking for a man and if you can show this to her it is enough to peak most women's interest; with good looks she will look past discrepencies in alpha behavior and will generate interest before you even speak to her.

- Chris

Octavius and C_...

Good convo.

I havent been in this community THAT long, and I've used very little direct game.

I think it is perhaps more nobel to just "get what you want" but for most men I have not seen this work as well as MM/Style method.

Part of this is that it requires confidence to attract women...which comes with experience. This experience can be gained from indirect techniques.

Perhaps as you gain experience you can use less and less of it and channel the confidence into direct game. I'm not convinced quite yet because I've never seen it work unless the guy was very physically attractive.

Although many times Mystery was "performing", the entertainment of others is part of his personality, just like a musician or actor. So it actually is a way of being an Alpha male.