Lets face it, woman are dream killers. Not all women but MOST. The game of escalation is played both ways, we escalate to GET the girl and once that’s done we are pretty much happy. Women escalate the relationship in the direction of getting more commitment from you. That commitment comes in the form of gifts, nice dinners, valentines day jewelry, ect at the start. Once they start living with you, they aren’t happy till you are paying all their bills. Its the game they play in order to put you in a position to marry them, to see if your willing and capable to provide for a family. Now if that's a road you want to go down with a women then fine, but proceed with caution. If its not, then you shouldn't be spending money on them. Plain and simple.

Seriously, there could be libraries of books on just this aspect to relationship management. Cause women will try to do all sort of wack shit in order to get you in that spending mode, including manipulating your emotions, trying to play your unwillingness to spend into a DLV putting you in a "take her or leave her position" again and again (testing you) in order to get what they want out of you. Its important that all PUA take notice in this. Because once they get a hold of a good chunk of your finances (and women can go through a lot of money, let me tell you) you find your self in a position where you cant spend time an money investing in your career or great life experiences. That’s why women are dream killers.

Think about this, when you have are married and have kids, you cant just say "I want to try a new career" or "hey, I should go back to school full time" or "I want to spend a year in Europe". NO SON, you have commitments boy. You have responsibility's. You CANT do that shit. You are DONE. That’s why marriage is called "settling down".

This is why (not just marriage) but any serious relationships should be considered very, VERY carefully. I learned all this very young and this is something that I will never do again. It almost destroyed me and ended my possibilities to achieve my potential. Now that I ended that relationship, I am in the position to do things and make hard sacrifices in order to put me in a better position. Which, in turn, will make me even more of a catch for even better women. Heh, its like the longer you hold out the more valuable you are.

This reminded me of a golden craiglist item that made many headlines and I'm sure many of you are familiar with. There was a personal ad that was posted on the W4M section of the New York craigslist. Here is, verbatim, what it said:
Pretty interesting post, eh? I bet a lot of PUA’s here are thinking “yah right, give me a night at a bar and ill take her home”. Well, that may be true, but that really isn’t the point. She aint gonna stick around for you unless your making 500K. Now what made this post famous is not the post itself but one of the responses it got. Here is the famous response:
And I whole heartedly agree. Always understand this when you go out sarging. These women aren’t getting prettier. There isn't a woman on this planet you should ever feel you need to "lock down". You better be getting a WHOLE lot more then good looks and great sex before you even THINK about making any commitments to a woman.

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"Responsibility for our lives is something we never lose but which we often deny... You can blame whomever you wish, but you’re the one who must experience (or endure) the results." -Steve Pavlina (http://www.stevepavlina.com)

I'm not gonna insult this guy, because he's obviously far beyond that. I am on the otherhand going to say that anyone that listens to this tripe is a retard and should stop using this forum because everything he says is bullshit.

Women are NOT the enemy and if you start acting that way, you won't be a very effective PUA and if you do manage to get into a relationship, then it is going to a horrid attempt at one, because you can't be successful in any relationship thinking the other person is the enemy.

Women are just people and there are a lot of ill intentioned people out there and there are just as many men that cheat and are assholes to women as women that are gold diggers and won't give you the time of day unless you have a porshe.

A lot of men are AFCs and if a girl has a choice between an AFC with money and one that is just a gas station attendant, yeah, she's gonna pick the one with money. But, if you are a PUA, then you are interesting and can make her actually want to be with you, then you don't need to worry about that nearly as much. Also, just being happy with who you are is a big turn on for girls, so if you ARE a gas attendant, then just own it and love it.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I've also thought about this point and I've reached the conclusion that these days, a lot of girls have the same aspirations as the girl mentioned above.

But this is nothing new. For Oriental girls this is fairly commonplace. When in Asia, I've been asked how much I earn, how big my flat is, and I've even had a girl check my business card to make sure I wasn't bullshitting about my job.

There is also a phenominon in Asia called "compensated dating" whereby a girl will state what kind of compensation she requires for a realtionship to take place. The girl may even have multiple relationships at the same time. I've had a girl mention to me her strategy of getting all her boyfriends to buy her the same Louis Vuitton handbag. She would then sell the extra ones and keep one to show to all the boyfriends who thought they bought that specific one. In western countries of course we would consider this an outrage but in Asia it is more accepted.

I have to say the one country I found the girls to be most openly moneygrabbing is China, but given that they earn a pittance it is hardly suprising. PUA techniques just do not work there. It's like using poker stategy when playing rummy.

Of course, not all women stoop to these lows but I'm starting to think that the world will start to turn this way, particuarly as we become more globailsed.

Yep I agree with Rye Lee..

Guys you can't look at the actions of a few women and judge all women.

It's not right when they do it, and it's not right or productive when you do it.

You're free to be as frustrated with the opposite sex as you choose to be. But in the end you're only hurting yourself.

Guys seriously, us older guys know what a great resource the internet is. Back when I was young, if you didn't get it, you suffered in silence until you beat your head against the wall enough to learn.

Today you come here, share notes, and learn from others so you don't have to learn the hard way. So get over yourself and realize, not every bodies rich. Fortunately, many women are as capable today of being the breadwinner as you are.

In my opinion that's a big leap forward. Yep, even you poor boys got a chance now..

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

Lol, I definitely over did it with the title...

I think you are missing the point guys. If you really read what im saying you will see that all this fits perfectly with PUA principals. I think that some of you are reading maybe, the first 2 sentences and then responding.
lol, I never made the statement that you need to be rich to get women. That craiglist post is an extreme example of a very real thing that a lot of guys face in relationships. This isn't about getting girls. like i said, you follow PUA principals and you can, in theory, lay anyone. Thats not the issue. See this beyond the normal getting laid material we have in form. Which kinda make this thread a little off topic but... oh well. Like i said before, it's relationship management.

When you are sarging a girl at a bar is it AFC to buy her lots of drink? Of course it is! Thats trick shit. That a DLV. that you need to buy her attention, right? Yeh, but do women still want you too? yes! if they get offended that you buy them drinks and show them attention then no one (not even AFC's) would do it. The point remains valid. Women on some level are still want control over the relationship in some capacity. When you start spending money on them that when you show DLV. It shows that they are in control. It's all the same principal.

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"Responsibility for our lives is something we never lose but which we often deny... You can blame whomever you wish, but you’re the one who must experience (or endure) the results." -Steve Pavlina (http://www.stevepavlina.com)

Just a short story for you guys, and the original poster.

I had sorta gamed a korean girl when I was living in NYC before I got heavily into PUA. This girl was basically like my sugar momma - she would invite me out to expensive restaurants and bars in NYC and pay for all of my food and drinks just because she liked my company. Well one night, she calls me up asking me what I was up to. She had just gotten off of a date with a REALLY successful doctor but the dude bored her to tears. What I gave her was emotion, and not money. At one point, she mentioned how boring he was and I responded "That's why I could never be a doctor; girls would always be coming to my office crowding up shit just to see me... complaining about broken nails and crap". And she replied "See? Why couldn't he have been funny like you!"

That was like some pre cocky + funny stuff, but the girl was begging me to come out with her that night (but I didn't). Just having money doesn't mean shit. If you can give a girl a huge rollercoaster of emotions she'll get addicted to you no matter how much money you make.

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The perfect 5th

That’s a great story. You should pride yourself in raising your value to the point where a successful doctor is less attractive then you are.

I'm afraid that I my post, at first glance, gives the impression that I am actually saying you need money to keep a girl around. That is not what i'm trying to get across at all. We all know that’s not true. That’s just the opposite of what I’m saying.

Let me tell you a story about me. It may clarify things. I was a HARDCORE AFC. A sheltered, conservative, and religious upbringing will do that to a guy. Me and all of my friends where AFC's. In fact, the AFC lifestyle was all i knew. I was of the mind that the principals and actions of a PUA where not only ineffective but MORALLY wrong. Now, I know better now. However, being in such a AFC state is not only personally limiting and social empty but also ..... and this is the point I'm trying to make .... disastrously dangerous to my personal well being.

As a PUA, you may never need to consider such problems but there are horrible, twisted, and gut wrenching experiences that occur to AFC when they are actually IN relationships. This inst even exclusively about money either.

Here is a small list of things that AFC are known to experience:

• Feel they need to show excessive amounts of attention
  Feel they need to say how much they LOVE the girl, all the time.
  Feel they need to express how they just CANT LIVE without the girl
  Compelled to spend more and more time with girlfriend when its personally and socially, not wise not to.
  Compelled to spend more and more money with girlfriend when its responsibly and financially not wise not to.
  Compelled to make greater commitments to this girlfriend that they personally are not ready to make
  Get bullshit from girlfriend that they feel they need to take seriously
  Get cheated on repeatedly
  Forced into believing they are somehow responsible for women cheating
  Forgiving such activity

AFC’s will tolerate such bullshit because they fear losing that person. Being with someone … anyone … is comfortable. Being by your self and playing the game is uncomfortable and this is scary to an AFC. And, as suspected, I saw these things happen to not only me but all of my AFC friends multiple times. I mean we talk and trade tips about getting to the PUA level, but do we ever really focus on why being an AFC is bad?

Financials are a big factor for me. I make a fair amount of money and have made horrible mistakes by investing it (as well as my time, and emotions) into a relationship. This “display of commitment” was never enough. And that’s because it really isn’t. It’s a DLV.

So anyway, no, I don’t really thing women are the enemy. I’m just being controversial for controversy sake and going on a rant. Sue me.

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"Responsibility for our lives is something we never lose but which we often deny... You can blame whomever you wish, but you’re the one who must experience (or endure) the results." -Steve Pavlina (http://www.stevepavlina.com)

I do have to say that your original post comes off as a bitter AFC trying to bash women. That said, what women say they want (like the girl in the craiglist) and what they REALLY want are generally two different things. Most people that marry for material things end up in divorce because they are truly not happy with the person in their marriage. (especially a woman)

You know, Gucci handbags can only make you but so happy. Trying going to bed with a person nightly that you have 0 attraction for and having to sleep with them. Trust me, that shit won't last long before they ask for a divorce or before they start cheating on them. (latter most likely to happen)

You can take a women's word like that of a politician's. Usually fully of shit and sounds good to make the public happy. Most women want the man to take control and lead. (qualities of a alpha male) This means sexually and in the other aspects of the relationship. I can't begin to tell you how many girls I know say ...."I just want a Nice Man". God damn, if I had a dollar for every time I've heard that said, I would have surpassed Bill Gates on the salary list.


Well, can you blame AFCs that don't know any better? After all, we are led to believe by society and women that this is what they want and how we should go about obtaining their attention and affection. This shit has been imbedded in our culture and conscious for generations. Fast forward till now. Now the game is played on a equal level for those of us that take the knowledge and apply it in our social world. This is what separates us from the rest of the pack. (knowledge)

I agree and disagree with that. First off let me state that there are exceptions to every rule, not all beautiful women are gold diggers and not all guys just want sex from a woman, BUT MOST ARE AND MOST DO. Just face it, i think many of you like to believe that shit that hollywood tells you that theres a true lover out there for everyone , hey whatever gets you through the day. But by doing that your hiding from what you've been hard wired to do, males reproduce and females lock males down for commitment in hopes of receiving help in raising the family.

All that being said, we still live in a era where men make more money then women and that prob will never change do to the fact women cannot take more risks that men can while caring for a child. Since BEAUTIFUL women are not as finacially ahead as men where do they expect to get their money from and where have they gotten their money from their whole lives. Im talking about 9's and 10's here, ya you might find some CEO's that are 7's and 8's but 9's and 10's in today's society generally do not have to work for much. They get guys buying them gifts, takeing them out on dates, buying them drinks, and shit when wealthy bf comes along he buys her a brand new Mercedes.

The only thing this woman has to worry about is locking a man down before she reaches 35 when she no longer holds the value she once did. Sure i know your saying "well im not rich and ive banged 9's and 10's before" well yes because the wealthy guys that buy her things typically arent as interesting as you and she'll go home with you for a night for wild sex or a stimulating conversation. But you still do not possess what it takes for her to live at the life she is currently living. MONEY!!!!!

I know im gonna get posts back saying "my buddy is married to a 10 and he makes 50K a year" well good for him, HE's THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE, NOT THE RULE..

In this forum we men who do not make six figures a year are learning tactics that will make us more interesting then the guy who does so we can take her home and bang her. but those tactics do not outwiegh the money that that 9 or 10 really wants in a husband.

A guy who debates this issue well is Tom Lykis. in LA its 97.1 free fm. or just look for KLSK

So when sarging those 9's and 10's, dont take your eye off the ball , know that what you want is sex and get that from her before she requires you to shell out money on her.

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-Desire-

Desire I hear you. I've been listening to Tom Lykis for a while. He definitely opened up my eyes while i was married. Convinced me to DUMP THAT BITCH!

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"Responsibility for our lives is something we never lose but which we often deny... You can blame whomever you wish, but you’re the one who must experience (or endure) the results." -Steve Pavlina (http://www.stevepavlina.com)

What exactly did he convince you of? I'm curious about his thoughts and views on the subject. I'm on the east coast so I can't listen to him.

Personally I'm not a big fan of Tom Lykis... I just think he goes a bit overboard.
I think thats a fantastic quote but I would apply that advice and the advice of Tom Lykis more to the golddigging sect... which IMO isn't the whole female population.

People tend get hat they believe they will... I say remember that as you decide what you believe.

Cant really argue with that. I blieve these are the kinds of women AFC's end of with most of the time for the above stated reasons. PUA's have more options and higher value so I'm sure they get less shit from the women they are with.

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"Responsibility for our lives is something we never lose but which we often deny... You can blame whomever you wish, but you’re the one who must experience (or endure) the results." -Steve Pavlina (http://www.stevepavlina.com)