For those of you who read The Game, you may recall an interesting shift in Style's opinion and some things he points out about the state of the game towards the last third of the book.
* The game (as we know it, given that "game" is a general term/concept that existed before), and in particular, the seduction community, is becoming well known to the public.
* The game and the community is being criticized by observers from different fronts.

In addition, another force that backs up the first point is the airing of The Pickup Artist seasons 1 and 2 in 2007 and 2008. On top of the show and the book(s), we have countless magazines and nowadays blogs speaking on the subject. Again, this is from outside the community.

In short - some may consider this to be the turning point that brought the pick-up community into the mainstream.

You'll recall examples from one chapter in The Game where Style mentions that entertainment districts around the world are now teeming with "PUAs", and more and more girls are calling them out on it. Remember: This was [i]prior[/i] to 2005.

In fact, entire sub-routines have been developed to counter these bitch tests/hoops/congruence tests: "Let me run the Best Friends test on you guys.", "Are you one of those pick up artists, like Mystery?", "So exactly what is it about Pick Up Artists that you find so attractive?".

But this is an uphill battle. As Pick-up becomes more and more well known, each and every one of us are at higher risk of being blown out in set for using canned-material - or worse - have our alternative identities revealed to loved ones who shouldn't know we're doing this, but can figure it out because they've watched the show or read about the community.

I understand that this is the General Questions board, so let me phrase my questions:

1. Have you ever approached a set with routines and had the girls point out that you're gaming them?
2. Have you ever had other so-called "PUAs" confront you (either in the middle of running a set, or otherwise)? I realize that usually they're just bros who have come across material either through the show or The Game.
3. Have you yourself run into other so-called PUAs - or just AFCs who've read a bit about pickup - running well-known material?

And, finally:

4. How will the pick-up community, and individual PUAs, evolve their game as the community becomes more and more well known to the mainstream/public eye? What separates us as PUAs apart from the average guy who we have to assume knows a bit about the game?

I wanted to see what this community thought about this subject. I believe that pick up is strong, but the community is dying, as it's being absorbed and assimilated into mainstream culture. However, I had my own opinions and answers to the ultimate question.

First, traditional concepts that are not as effective:

* Peacocking is becoming normal - and therefore is no longer peacocking, because everyone does it. Look around you in a club today. Most of the guys are rocking some sort of additional flare. Usually stylish hats, or vests, and very often those damn leather bracelets that we're all (unofficially, I think) known for. In general, men are becoming better dressed, so everyone just seems to blend in.

How do we deal with this? Dress even crazier? Mystery-level crazy? No. Because now if you peacock too much, people will call you out on it, because they know about the game. And like I said above, if you peacock too little, you are out-peacocked by normal guys. The tables have turned.

So again, how do we deal with this? I honestly feel that this category is a lost cause, but I'd love to hear your opinion. I think that the future of the game lies more in external prop use rather than props that you wear. And, of course, in the material you choose to run.

* We have to assume that all openers that are in the public eye are "well known". This includes every line used in The Game, and every line used in The Pickup Artist. This mostly applies to openers: Who lies more, men or women? Did you see that fight outside? Do you floss before or after you brush? This also applies strongly to the category of negs: Your nose wiggles when you talk. You blink a lot. Are those nails real? A lot of this material sounds generic and sometimes forced, and therefore is at risk of being called out.

* We have to assume that the major classes of material are also "well known". I am speaking more broadly now: Opinion openers of any sort should be blacklisted. Some might fare better than others: "I need a female opinion on something" is a lot riskier than "My buddy and I were having an argument and we need to you help us settle it.", especially when you actually have your wing there.

Another suspect class are supernatural/magic related gambits: Best friends test. Pick a number between 1 and 4. The Cube (yes, especially The Cube). Strawberry Fields. Handwriting analysis. Palm reading. etc.

* Night game will overall be at higher risk than day game, since the community is much better known for that.

And now, concepts that still apply:

"Rare" material. Basically anything that is not "well known" because it's been buried in a forum for some time or traded through word of mouth. The more situational the material, the more genuine it will appear (see my example above with opinion openers). At this point in the game's evolution, it is a matter of being very convincing when you are delivering canned material.

The devil is in the details: Tons of traditional concepts still apply, especially when they involve details and not words. All concepts about body language and movement (locking in, kino in general, silent negs). Auxillary concepts like false time constraints are still effective and crucial, especially in the Mystery Method. IOIs are supposedly hard-wired and therefore still apply. However, we have to be a bit more creative then "I can only stay a second, I have to get back to my friends".

Wings will be key to survival. Having a wing will back up your image and make you appear more genuine. Who are all these friends you "have to get back to"? Well if there is someone else there, your value is actually backed up. I still believe that the accomplishment intro, when done right, is one of the most powerful gambits out there.

I believe highly in more recent and uniquely developed routines and concepts. One example is a purely kino move, "The Claw". There is a great post on it in this forum. Even new technologies will be essential to a PUAs freshness and success rate. Learning the Text game and the Facebook game will be vastly important. Online dating, however, is orthogonal to all that.

Finally, I believe the secret is going to lie a lot in obtaining Natural Game. That means [i]not[/i] canned material. Many people online claim that it comes easily to them, but I am sure a lot of people are saying that just as a way to brag. Improvisation in general is what I am referring to here, and it is not an easy thing to ease into. It is even harder to teach. If anything, seminars teach you canned material that makes you appear to be a natural, not help you become an actual natural.

The PUAs that survive are going to be the ones that achieve Natural Game. No, "un-naturals" do not count - I mean people who actually absorb the core concepts and deliver them through self-created speech. This is all a question of innovation, as there has to be a shift in the way PUAs run game in order to deal with this wave of scrutiny.

I am not here to say that the entire world knows every detail about everything we've learned and do. A girl at a bar who's seen an episode of The Pickup Artist isn't going to figure out that you're currently in A3, or that what you're taking her on is a "Day 2". She will, however, call you out on anything that starts with "I need a female opinion on something...". Or at least you should expect her to if you expect to continue playing the game.



===

Finally, as a footer, here were the things that I've seen over the past while that have provoked me to think through this and ultimately write this post:
* The part in The Game where Pick Up seems to be becoming very popular in major cities.
* An old online video of meehow where he actually encounters and handles a situation where a girl in set calls him out. Nicely done, but definitely a warning signal.
* Various interviews and appearances of well known PUAs in media: mostly talk shows but also on non-PUA blogs and occasionally in the news.
And finally:
* A frosh I met, who did not seem to be involved in the PUA world at all, who knew about peacocking and negs.

Where are you posting from... ...2005?

In some sense, yes. All my examples are from that 2005-2008 era when things started becoming more public. Of course, it's just an example, and of course, things have slowly changed since then. But of course, this problem persists.

Fin - How have you yourself altered your game to stay more current to and avoid such pitfalls? I mean, a totally valid answer is "I just never ever use any material that is accessible to the public like that".

My point is, this post is old. These questions were asked ages ago when MM started getting big and these questions about what will happen and how will PU change were finally solved with the magic ingredient of time.

To catch you up to speed with the general consensus on this stuff.

Got caught using scripted openers? Not the end of the world, keep going.

Can't make your own? Get some creativity or don't bother with canned.

People know your a PUA? Not a problem.

All PUA is basically a refinement of what works for naturals. It can't be stopped.

Canned stuff = great for getting your feet wet and giving you same safe material to let you know what you're supposed to be doing.

Natural = what you develop into. Sometimes the material moulds to you. Other times, the material moulds you.

Stop using routines and develop an actual personality and you wont have these worries anymore.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

LOL


You can make up your own routines if you want. If you get caught, its not like a poo-ah is a paedophile or anything, just a guy trying to get laid. . . more so.

_________________
"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

I dont know if this has to do with anything but if you tell a friend you've read the Game or are trying stuff out you get one of two reactions;

1) "haha you lame-wad, thats weird, youre weird" then they act better than you and point it out to people.

2) they dont care so much but forget talking about girls with them. They'll start seeing anything you do around a girl as manipulative and weird like if you even said "hi" to some random girl they're like "is that all you've got? i thought you were supposed to a PICK UP ARTIST". Like if you learnt a martial art and people think you're the karate kid.

This is the only real thing ive noticed with it being more in the mainstream. You just get judged quicker.
Which is funny as almost any normal guy at least talks about getting a girl in the club whilst at the bar. which is what pick up pretty much is, only nerd-style.

_________________
"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

For anyone who can't be bothered to read all of this I have summarised it below

tl;dr

OP made a post about how PU is more mainstream and that people are going to get called out on it. Then answered his own questions with natural game being the solution.

Fin - Cool. So it sounds to be like the opinion here is that "things have not changed tpp much" despite PU going mainstream over the last 5 years - at least in terms of what works and what doesn't. If you are ever caught in a situation where your material is called out, you simply plow.

shahanshah - Interesting that you mentioned that judgement is different now than it was before. Part of writing this post, despite people considering it antiquated, is to take a critical look at how views have changed about PU over the years. It seems like people here are more interested in doing FRs and exchanging routines or whatever, and that's cool. The next post I wanted to write was questioning the judgement of the PUA community. There are people who love and hate us out there. What's justified?

zebraG - Nice summary of the state of things now - and how it's not too different than before.

trixsta - Yeah, I was more making a statement than posing questions I didn't know the answer to. I was still interested in what others thought - if they thought I was wrong in my conclusions about canned material vs natural game in the game today. But if they're not interested in diving in then hey, whatever.

It would also depend on how old aspiring PUAs are, around 5 years ago they might of still been in grammar school and have NO idea about the episodes that aired. At the very least their targets would be unaware of such things. We are in a culture now that goes through many phases/trends quickly so I doubt a lot of people kept a long "social" memory of what happened 5 years ago.

I have never used canned material so I can't tell you if I have ever been called out on gaming a girl. Now a days either a girl knows she is being flirted with or is just happy some guy has the balls to talk to her. Case in point last weekend was at a bar two VERY attractive out of state girls were just dancing with any guy trying to get attention but no one had the balls to approach them so they left after their advances were met with guys who didn't know what to do. Before you ask I was already in progress with one of my sets that I brought to said bar so it would of been extremely rude to leave them talking while I attempted at something else lol.

I didnt read your whole post because that shit was getting long. I got the jist of your concerns tho and I dont think that they are warrented. In 2007 I was worried about the same thing, big time! I had one girl call me out for being a pua and I thought I would have to drop mysterys stuff all together. Heres the reality tho, "the pickup artist" was a major flop, the ratings where horrible. Not only that, it was a reality tv show that women probably saw once or twice 4 years ago, there not going to remember any of that shit. I just recently got back into the game and started using all of mysterys canned stuff like it was 2005 all over again. Its been working great. I open 10 sets a weekend with the fight outside ruitine and nobody knows shit. Also, peacocking. Your right about guys dressing more outlandish, heres the counter.....dress simple but interesting. Examples that I have: I have a black t-shirt with the "animal" from seseme street on it in flouresent colurs that glows in the dark people ALWAYS comment on that shit. Also, I wear a former highschool wrestling sweatshirt I had from 2 years ago when I go out in my hometime. You would be amazed how many people my age stop me and say "oh you know coach pimental?!?" or something about the school. My point is that you should relax, no women are seeing these specials on tv about love systems then spending hours studying the material. Its some shit that they hear about and forget couple weeks later.

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There are 3 type of players, those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what just happend. Which one are you?

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
OH GODS EVERYONE LOOK THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

How many times does this thread have to come up? Seriously? Every fucking time I log onto this site, someone is talking about this. I spend a few months away dealing with my girlfriends, and when I come back, it's the same fucking thread. Every time.

I started this shit what? Five years ago? Nothing has changed. I have two, awesome, long-term girlfriends who both know I'm a pick-up artist. Nothing has changed. I talk to girls who know about pick-up artists on a pretty regular basis. Nothing has changed. I still run the fucking CUBE on people. The one right out of the book. THAT BOOK. Nothing has changed.

More people know. So?
Women are aware. So?
The sky isn't falling, guys. The sky is just fine. It's right where you left it. A book, a pile of documentaries, a reality TV show and news coverage everywhere that speaks English haven't changed a goddamned thing about pick-up.

When you boil it right down, you're playing a numbers game. If you approach enough women with the right attitude, saying the right lines, eventually a percentage of them are going to find you charming and are going to put your penis in them. All that's changed, the biggest thing that has happened to our community since The Game came out, is that the percentage has changed to exclude the girls who have read the book, remember the book, associate the book with you, and find both you and the book abhorrent. This changes exactly nothing. Your game plan is still the same. Go out, make approaches, and if you're blown out (regardless of the reason) go make more approaches.

One of those women, eventually, will find you charming, and put your penis in her.

As for judgement about the PU community from the outside, I have only this to say: I am the only person in the world who can choose how I will behave, so long as that behavior is in accordance with the law. Haters gonna hate.

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Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

Coevolution is a potent force in nature. As males start to find ways of getting females to copulate with them, the females start to develop resistance. Some would call it an evolutionary arms race. One evolves the other coevolves. From this perpective there's nothing really all that new about what happens in the community. Peacocks game peahens, and tigers, tigresses.

I have female friends who have read the game and yes they do sometimes comment on the tactics used, such as HER: 'how old are you?', PUA: 'how old do you think I am?'. But I'm sure, as Spud pointed out, if she is feeling charmed, she will bypass it. On the other hand I do believe that keeping things fresh and innovative is the way forward. db