Vale, one of the most misunderstood concepts in the community. I constantly get asked how a person can raise their value. I get asked about DHV stories, negs, and other value relating things all the time!

Guys, here is the truth about value:

Value is NOT that important!

Lets examine value for a second. Value is what makes you "acceptable" for a girl to talk too. Obviously if you have the "value" of a bum then your not as acceptable to talk to as a guy in a 10 thousand dollar suit.

Most guys know at east THAT much. Here is where the problem comes in. Guys get all obsessed with value and constantly worry about where their value is. They then try to manipulate both theirs and the girls value through DHV stories, negs, and other tools.

All of this, however, is counter productive to having a successful interaction leading to a solid close. Lets dive deeper into this:

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DHV Stories
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Stories that "Demonstrate Higher Value" are counter-productive. High value men do not go around trying to prove to women that their high value. High value men know that they don't need to prove shit to a women and that the female is the one that needs to meet HIS standards. Trying to get a women to believe your high value is pretty gosh darn needy and on many levels, creepy!

If a high vale male tells a story, its to entertain himself and to have fun.

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Negs
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Negs are commonly used to "lower" a women's perceived value. Here is the problem with this.

1) This assumes shes higher value than you and that you need to lower her value to that she will deem you "worthy." The truth of the matter is, your the one who decides if shes worthy! No need to bring her value down.

2) High value guys actually RAISES her value. Its something I call Mutual Value Escalation. High Value Guys raise both his and her value because they have fun together! Also, a women loves a guy who she believes makes her more Valuable.

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Value: A New Outlook
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Now that we know DHV stories, Negs, and other value manipulating tactics are useless and counter productive, how should we view value?

When I approach a girl I honestly don't even think of value. I don't worry whre hers is at and I don't worry about where mine is at. We are two people in a club (street, coffee shop...) both out for a good time. In my reality our value is the same. Its on a equal playing field!

Here is the truth: Just being fun, interesting, and non-creepy is value enough. Most guys she encounters will be pretty boring and creepy. But not you! You are different and that in itself gives you value.

Pop quiz! At the beginning I said Value was what?

"Value is what makes you "acceptable" for a girl to talk too."

Ok, we know what value is now but what is our goal of even approaching the girl? Ultimately I'm going to guess you want to have sex with her.

Here is the problem: Value makes you acceptable to talk to. Girls find lots of guys acceptable to talk too, tons actually! But guess what, she doesn't have sex with most of the guys shes talks too!

Ok, thats another piece of the puzzle! Value makes you acceptable to talk to but does not make the girl want to sleep with you. But, your goal is to sleep with her!

Using common sense now we can see that worrying about value (which most guys do to much) wont accomplish our goals. So what will?

Being sexual, sexual escalation, sexual tension, sexual state projection, and making her horny!

Most guys spend a ton of time on manipulating and worrying about value and not enough time on making her horny!

Next time you approach don't worry about value, its a non-issue. Instead, maker her horny! Make her crave your manhood! Make her jump your bones!

Have Fun,
Warped Mindless.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

That is a damn interesting point.

Value may not be something really necessary.
I never liked the process of turning one of my stories into a DHV.

Going to a "HB10" (or 11 if it matters) and treating her as your equal is already being "value-able".
=> I'm also with you on the point that value doesn't what gets you in her bed. So it's quite over-rated. If a rock-star, with very high value, comes to her and asks abruptely "Hey let's have sex", I still think most of women will say no. Because it lacks escalation (I'm watching Steath Attraction, it's really good).


You *will* tease her, without having to use "negs".
You *will* be interesting, without having to use complicated stories with implicite ingredients.


That's where I'm don't feel the same way as you do, Warped :

I think a high value guy *will* DHV and *will* neg naturally. These are theorical concepts of things you naturally do when you're high-value.

Because every social encounter hinders a kind of fight : She will test you (hoop ?) by trying to treat you as lower value than her, and/or by giving herself more value than you.
You won't justify yourself, but like "AMOGing", you'll have to counter-attack.

I think this is a bit silly.
You use your value to do everything in your second paragraph.

Without value you cannot sexually escalate, for instance.

It all comes down to core value. That is the root. Your use of the phrase 'worrying' about one's value troubles me. If you're worrying about your value, that = low value.

Everything you said we should concentrate on can just as easily be though of in terms of value. Basically what the person above me said:

I said that one should not worry about his value. Like I said, just being a sociable guy gives you value. No one should ever be in a club and wondering about his value and where its at. Instead focus on having fun and owning the club!

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Best god damn thread i've read in a long time on this forum.

There is an underlying hypocrisy in what you are saying. Concously not trying to DHV is no different to trying to DHV. Saying you approach thinking 'both values are equal' is s taking into considering value.

Let's look at an accepted meaning of the word

value [ˈvæljuː]
n
1. the desirability of a thing, often in respect of some property such as usefulness or exchangeability: worth, merit, or importance

Everything we do as humans is an exchange. If a girl is to chat to you, whether you like it or not, you have to be desirable. She has to get something out of the arrangement. If you're interesting then she will spend some of her 'valuable' time to engage in conversation and visa versa

Cost to Her/You = Time
Product = Your/Their interestingness

Time is valuable!

I think what we are referring to is a classic misunderstanding of MM. Mystery IS an interesting character. Where people trip up is they try to make-up interesting things about themselves, or just blatantly copy Mystery's, Rather than sitting back and saying "wow the reason I struggle with girls is because I am pretty dull. I need to sort out my life" they go "Right, let's look at what Mystery or AFC Adam is doing and copy that".

Suddenly everything becomes about "how to pick up women". This is a mistake IMO. Someone's failure to be good with chicks isn't the problem. The fact your life isn't that interesting is the greater problem. That's the core issue.

I know I became more interested in picking up women when my life became ever more boring. Reason being that when your down and out your last glimmer of hope is chatting to girls. And what was interesting is the occasion where I did something exciting (for myself) some 10 chatted me up at a bar in las vegas. I was wearing a big pink fluffy hat at the time (seemed like a fun idea at the time viva la peackock lol ). Being at a bar wasn't interesting, it was the fact I was in Las Vegas (I am from UK) for a really cool event. You do cool shit for yourself and everything else follows.

So that leads me back to value. I agree actively demonstrating value that isn't natural isn't the way forward.

What the lesson is here is quite simply.

If you are actively trying to or trying NOT to DHV then there is a greater problem - you aren't living an interesting life. Maybe it's time to change direction. A new job, a new adventure. The more cool shit you do for yourself the better everything becomes.

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“Simplicity is the key to brilliance”

rhukkas, congrats on missing the whole point. I think you should re-read it again.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Interesting thread.

So much this.

I'll partially agree with the quoted statement above. The other side of that issue is:

Some guys need help with their delivery. Some guys lead extremely interesting and high-value lives but have zero in the way of communication skills, to themselves or to others. Or they have self-esteem issues and don't see the value of the things they do.

This is why tweaking your stories to demonstrate higher value is important. All my stories are real, and many of them happened before getting into pickup... but I have reworked the way that I tell them to better incorporate elements that women associate with higher value.

Telling stories is a good way to get to know and relate to other people in general. I don't tell stories to entertain myself; I tell them because I enjoy the company of other people. So I entertain them, they entertain me, and we all have fun. This goes for meeting males and females, networking to further your career or to build up your social scene.

Value (imo) is your self-worth. You do have inherent value, no matter who you are or what you do. (but that leads to a whole other discussion) DHV is about communicating, demonstrating, that worth effectively. Why wouldn't you want to improve your communication skills?

While I disagree with your definition of value, I say "Amen!" to that.

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Live Your Truth.

You can fuck a girl due to sexual tension and her attraction emotions with no problem, but you sure wont keep her and fuck her many many times if you dont show her your DHV's.

So yes value is important for some things and not important for others. Depends what you want.

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"They're playing groupie, so I'm playing rock star." (mystery)

Your life, in general, should be one big DHV!

For example, my life is filled with adventure and if I let a women be a part of that, she loves it. Again, im not going out of my way to prove my value to her, Im letting her see and experience it first hand.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Yes, that is true. However, then you assume that the guy has value already. Like, non told value. If value can be percieved by the way you act, the way you interact and move etc etc. Then you dont have to DHV.

In my opinion, DHV stories are for two things, having something fun to talk about and troubleshooting.

You cannot just go up to a girl and let her decide if she likes your face or not. Thats unfair to her. How can she know that you are awesome?

The thing that she can percieve is your "value". As in social value. Confidence and shit. So she gets interesting.

During the pickup she will hint about some things, you will see what her questions are, like is this guy social? Yeah, either you show it or you flip the attraction switch through a story.
The entire point of hiding it in a story is to not brag. You say that people with low value has to show it and that that itself lowers their value. Yes, thats correct. Unless it is hidden.

One thing I liked in your post is that your life should be a big DHV. Thats true. It should. And when it is you can stop caring about value, then you can leave all the value building routines and stuff behind because you have already maxed it out.

But you are missing one important point. Most of the people here dont have such a lifestyle. They dont have the means to get it either. Not talking cash here but inner game. They dont know how to do. It is easy for us to say, just do it. But it is not that easy to follow advice of that kind. They cannot just do it. They need the excercise, the training they get from using the routines and whatnot.

Its like telling a kungfu master to break a plank, sure he can just do it. But his apprentice cannot. Hes gotta practice first. Then he can just do it.

Ezo

Im going to be redoing this post but in video format and posting it up here. Ill be taking what you said into consideration and adding my thoughts to it. I posted this way back at the beginning at 2010 and almost a year later now I have a bunch of stuff I want to add to my original post.

Ill post the video up soon.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

I'd like to point out that this thread doesn't really apply to college game, as social value is of the utmost importance.



p.s. in b4 "I PIK UP CHIX AND IM NOT POPLAR IN COLAGE"


edit: After actually reading the thread, I'd like to point out that I disagree with the OP definition of value. Especially in the context of my comment, I believe value is more about what you have to "bring to the table" in social dynamics.

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"I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was."

Underlying what? LOL . . . The OP doesn't understand "value" both in the general economic definition of the word AND the way its used by the PU community. There is no underlying hypocrisy. . . just dire confusion. For guys reading, always start off with this:
And
Always.
In the beginning yes. As things progress, both cost and perceivable value of 'product' (as you crudely put it) will both rise. For anybody to stick around, their perceivable value must be greater than their cost.
I realize that some of you are younger. Still . . . I bet that an average 8th grader would tell me that a person who is able to raise the sexual interest of another is a 'value rich' individual.

I thought about dissecting the entire initial post but the confusion is nearly unreadable . . .

I agree with the OP, I think a few people just have different ideas of what value is.

I'll write a good reply later on...