I've been thinking about something earlier today, and I just read something that Beschatten wrote in response to a question that somebody asked that got me thinking even more. Several years ago, when I was in middle school, I went through a completely negative and hateful goth phase. I wore all black, I hated the world, I hated myself, I hated my life. I was full of self-pity and believed that I've "been through a lot of shit." Even nowadays people tell me that I seem very mature for my age and it seems that I've "been through a lot."

I've begun to see that that is total bullshit. What have I been through? 30+ rejections in middle school may have left me in emotional turmoil to the point of fucked up depression, but these were all just GIRL ISSUES. How could I have been such a pussy to have been suicidal over GIRL ISSUES?

My parents stayed together. I was fed whenever I was hungry. I received (and am receiving) good education. I was provided with a plethora of extracurricular activities. I was never captured and tortured. I was never forced to endanger myself. I was never sexually abused. Hell, I've never even been GROUNDED (grounding isn't a standard disciplinary method in Asian cultures). I haven't been through shit. I haven't ever been REALLY tested to earn manhood.

I was even disappointed at my performance at one point while I was pledging for Sigma Chi. I can't reveal details as I am sworn to secrecy, but let's just say that I could have been more of a man.

I've always thought that I've experienced a lot of the bad shit life has to offer, but what the fuck do I know? I've never had it THAT bad. I've just been a pussy when I was a kid. What do I know of real struggle?

I've been exposed to some pretty bad racism and other kinds of prejudice against me. I've had my heart broken by countless oneitises. I've had to go to court. I've had a friend die in a car crash. I've had a friend die of heart attack. My taekwondo grandmaster died of lung disease. I've had friends of friends commit suicide. I've had close friends ATTEMPT suicide. I've had issues with my parents. I've had issues with friends and girlfriends. I used to have a drinking problem. I used to be a chain smoker. Someone hacked into my Neopets account and took all my Neopoints. Someone stole my credit card information. Sure, I've been through all that, but can I really call that "a lot?" What do I know of REAL struggle?

Everything I have been through has been completely laughable compared to the shit my own father has been through, laughable compared to the shit people over in Darfur are going through, laughable compared to the shit people in communist nations have been through, laughable compared to the hunger that people in third world countries feel. I don't have to fear for my life on a daily basis. I don't have to worry about how I'm going to get my next meal. I don't have friends and family dropping like flies left and right. I don't have to worry about the government killing me for exercising my freedom of speech. I don't have trees falling on me from lumber work and having to drive myself to a far-away hospital while half-paralyzed from the spinal impact (props to Sean Messenger and his family). I don't have the world watching my every move as I try to achieve something no man has done before.

"I once cried because I had no shoes. Then I met a man with no feet." -Anonymous

Guys, we are all here to learn from each other, better our lives, and create solutions to our perceived problems. Keep a bigger picture in your minds, though, and know that any problem we may have with GIRLS... it's really not that bad. It's really no big deal. The struggle you face on the path of learning pickup is NOTHING compared to the struggles of REAL LIFE.

Real life turns you into a real man. Pickup can help, but it's not the meat and potatoes. It's just the seasoning.

I'm 18 years old, I have a head full of PUA knowledge, a resume of some solid field experience, but I haven't seen nothin' yet. I can't wait to see what life has in store to REALLY test me. I can't wait to face the hardships that life has to offer so I can develop some real, solid character. Time to step forward.

Well Chief, as one a bit older but not necessarily wiser, I'd like to get in on this little meditation myself. My relationship with my parents is good. It wasn't always like that. Without getting into too many details, mutually assured destruction was the name of the game. I learned all about death early on. I fluctuated between broke and well-off all throughout childhood before settling somewhere in the middle. I played surrogate father for my younger siblings when dad was gone trying to build us a better life. I built a stable financial platform for myself after ten years in the workforce and more than a few months of ramen noodles and/or friends' couches. My best friend killed himself years ago, another one tried a bit more recently. I was able to do something that time. I've been in no fewer than six situations, lasting anywhere from minutes to weeks, where I knew my own death was imminent if I didn't apply my acquired skills along with talent for quick thinking (or "pull a MacGyver," as my brother puts it).

After struggling my way through work, college and expensive career-specific training, I built the profession for myself that I dreamed of since I was a child, and I've had to deal with the reality that I want much more out of my life than the one thing that had been my driving force since as far back as I can remember. All of these things have played a part in molding me into the person I am now. I've made myself successful, debt-free, healthy and happy in most respects of my life. I'm 24 years old, and I'm set on a path that I'm eager to follow for the rest of my days. I'm even in a position where I help others. I can't claim the level of hardship that some of the people you mentioned can, but it hasn't been easy either. I hear on an almost daily basis that I'm unusually mature for my age. Looking around at the typical neophyte post-college 20somethings I meet, I guess that's true.

But you know what the one thing was that left me most fearful, shaken, and doubtful of myself for the longest periods of time? What caused unparalleled bouts of depression and self-loathing? You guessed it. Relationships. I've been in one-itis, and I've been in love. Neither ended well, but I'm thankful that I now know the difference. The confidence and determination that I learned in other aspects of my life clashed horribly with my relationship failures, and if anything made them worse in my mind. These were problems for which I was unprepared, and I couldn't solve them by just making myself smarter or stronger or harder-working than everyone else in the room. The other issues in my life were simply things that happened to me. This was something I was doing to myself. Nobody else can destroy you if you've already tried to do it first. Don't discredit the tests you have been through. The first real step to maturity is acknowledging your own immaturity and your own weakness. Most people go through their lives without even getting that far.

Most of us are here to learn about an aspect of our lives that we either neglected or flat-out screwed up along the way. We have many teachers in the form of the well-publicized mPUAs. Teachers, not role models. I have no interest in being a pill-popping, self-aggrandizing skirt chaser for the rest of my life. Many of the "masters" are exactly that. If you're looking for true maturity in your life (and many of us are), then you probably know that this is just one piece of the puzzle. A big piece, to be sure. This stuff isn't trivial - women and relationships have been the catalyst for the downfall of many otherwise great men throughout history. Many people who have been through great struggles in their lives have either been broken by them or simply ignored the lessons they should have learned. We can all be much more or much less than the sum of the experiences in our lives. There's no need for anyone to doubt or discredit themselves simply because they haven't been tested in a certain way yet. That's one of the big lessons I learned, and PU was part of the curriculum.

I quess I shouldn't be laughing... But its too funny

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There is NO secret ingredient. Theres just you.

I missed this post too. Well in 2008 I wasn't on this forum anyways. But a pretty mature post.

I've had my own little struggle. But everytime I'm working hard for something I look around and I see someone who is working Harder and thats what gets me going.

There is always someone out there whoes battle is tougher than yours.

Good Post Chief

Hobbit! Punish yourself for breaking rule #1

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Slywalker

10 things I wish someone taught me about Pick Up 10-things-i-wish-someone-taught-me-vt53087.html

This post made me think a lot, and I post the following not for my own personal gratification but because I believe that it can help others in moments of doubt. My own struggle may not measure up to many others in the world, but it was very real, and it is something I continue to grapple with to this very day; I've gotten over it and I don't let it hold me back, but there is the random night where memories of the past randomly crop up.

I guess if I'm going to post this then I'll start from the beginning. When I was young, family was everything to me. My father was a god, and my mother was a complete example of strength; but sometimes the trials of this life can break even the strongest of souls. In seventh grade, I found my little sister (four years younger) sitting in her room sobbing; she revealed that the last four years of her life had been spent under the forced sexual tutelage of a close family friend. Well, even longer story short, my parents continued arguing for two years until they eventually sided on divorce. During this time my mother became an alcoholic, and my father slipped completely into a latent mental illness which had been brought about my frequent drug-use and the obvious stress: I guess being bipolar can be a bitch. The asshole who started all of this was sent to prison for 75 years, I wish he had stayed buried but life doesn't always go by what's right I guess.

Of course I knew none of this about my father, so I lived with my mother until he found a place suitable for raising children. Once he finally found a house, I moved in with him. Everything was finally starting to look up a bit: my mother had been taking out everything that had happened on me so I was hoping this would be a better environment (there was one situation where she told me I was going to hell when I died, all because I asked her where my bow-tie was for a chorus trip, alcohol when mixed with deep pain is never advisable). At first, living with my father was great. He was an awesome cook, and he seemed kind; well, I suppose I sided with him on the divorce. We had our problems; and while I eventually started seeing his mental illness cropping up (though I ignored it), life was getting better finally (my definition of better at that point was being able to go to bed without feeling like I was in hell). However, a year into it, I found out that he had been in constant contact with the man who molested my sister (though I didn't know the particulars). The first day we moved in, I saw their number on the caller ID, but he said the guy's wife was a victim too so I guess I chose to ignore it. Needless to say, this realization sent me down a very dark path but I guess I stayed with him under the hope that I would understand the "why".

I was alone with nobody to turn to. I had a few friends, but they couldn't save me from the shit I had to go through. This period taught me two things at the time: I learned the meaning of true hate, and I learned how to manipulate people; essentially, I learned exactly who I should NEVER be. I've always been a hopeful person, and for some reason I though he could change, so I chose to stay with the mentally abusive bipolar father instead of the mentally abusive alcoholic mother. But you know what? I regret none of it. But, two years later, I found the notes... My father had been having a sexual affair with the man who raped his six year old daughter, this affair had lasted roughly three years. This wrecked me more than I will every be able to describe. After that christmas, I moved back in with my mom who had stabilized, I haven't been able to talk to my father ever since. This was my senior year of High School.

Well, one of the many things I learned through my experience during puberty is this: ALWAYS maintain the will to push forward, never give up no matter what. This mentality has gotten me to the point where I know I can deal with whatever life has to throw at me. Not saying I won't feel bad, but I know I can get through it no matter what; because you have two choices: push through, or give up. That's it. I also realized that instead of taking the worst situations in your life as a curse; one should view these as the challenge that they are. As long as you keep yourself strong and force yourself through, the possibilities taken through hardship contain an infinite amount of depth. My own personal journey has taught me who I am, who I will be, and how important those who I choose to surround myself with are. I feel as I have been given a perspective well beyond my years. I've never given up, nor will I ever; and thankfully, I've found the friends who can support me for who I am. Now, I definitely still have problems with women, but this mindset has given me the tools to seek the education which will get me past. I understand there are walls which I must tear down, but you know what? Conquer life. Make it what you will; for our actions now will shape who we will become; and I don't know about you, but I want and will turn myself into a force to be reckoned with. Normality is boring, why choose to be standard when you can find the inner strength to become great? Fuck the will of the world, and fuck the balls. Be who you are, know who that person is, and refine yourself; but never lose sight. Life is too short to doubt your inner game, instead focus on the constant refinement of the self. Doubts are a poison which is difficult to salve, shoot for the moon; for at the very least, such a pursuit will find you among the stars.

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"All the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave, all the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them." Rilke

I doubt many people understand the real meaning of true hate. It is a scary thought knowing you could kill someone in cold blood and the only thing that is stopping you is the punishment.

I used to get relentlessly bullied and one guy I knew eventually resorted to taking a screwdriver to school – needless to say he got attacked as usual but this time he was armed. Things got out of hand and he stabbed him and went to jail. The victim of years of bullying went to jail and the bully got away with it all.

I also learned to manipulate people like you. I used to see myself as a puppet master who could easily toy with everyone for my own entertainment and use. It’s crazy to think this but I was not even sixteen. Years of experience and dealing with trying not to commit suicide led me to hate everyone, even myself. I hated the people who bullied me. I hated the people who watched it happen but turned a blind eye. I hated the teachers for not doing more to stop it. I hated the countless psychologists who couldn’t help me even though it was not their fault. In short, I ws a misanthropist who only didn;t hate his family.
I am exactly the same. I choose friends very carefully but if you are my friend I will always be on your side and fight for you. I also find it exceptionally hard to trust people, and when I eventually discovered that plenty of girls were willing to cheat on their boyfriends with me it was not a good mix.

However I have finally come to terms with it all completely, the only scar is that I find it exceptionally hard to trust people, but I am now completely happy with myself and others. I also feel like I have experiences beyond my years and people often comment on how ‘mature’ I am, even though I am still a 19 year old who thinks nothing is funnier than throwing snowballs at peoples’ windows at 2am in my uni accommodation to wake them up.

Nihro, the only advantage that the things we have been through (and many other people, it is not as uncommon as you think) is that we can see and notice things other people don’t, and for this reason alone I can connect amazingly well with girls. The fact that you care is one major disadvantage but when you can empathise – which is all girls really want and not practical solutions – it makes you a very great listener and person to talk to.

I hope that one day you will be able to completely move on from your experiences, but still be able to remember them - because it is your experiences who make you are.

We all generalise. We generalise based on our experiences. If you have four Vauxhall's and they are all shitty you will form an opinion that Vauxhall's are shitty. Is that wrong? No. The more experiences and variety of them you have, the more diverse and deep you are; and this, I believe, is what truly makes a person.

Chief very good post

I mean we have had alot of up's and down im sure. Iv just got out of a pretty bad relationship myself. I went up to Canada for about a year with a girl. She had 3 kids, 2 girls and a mentally challenged son. While I was up there I went through having not much food. I was living in the ghetto which had some gang members who were supposed to have problems with the girl I was with, and made death threats to me her and the kids. Lived in the road there that had all the RACIST white people. Which im puerto rican and white but dark skinned. And they all thought I was black. And they gave me hell cuz they didnt want me there to calling cops on me to just games to get me arrested cuz they were racist. I had problems wit the gurl I was with. Where we argued all the time. To the point where she would hide the things I needed to go back to the USA. To the point where she was hitting and slapping me that I had enough and I was put into a situation to snap her back and I kneed her in the nip busting her shit. But the whole time I was trying to leave and I was undergoing time after time of her hitting me and holding my pants which has my papers for me to be able to come back to the united states. And I dont think hitting a women is right in any way. But when I women feels like they can hit you without getting anything back I think it's wrong. I think everyone should be even on EVERYTHING. And from that point on she admit it was us both which it was and even takes more responsibility. Then when I left i left for good which i couldnt tell her. Cuz she threatned that she would call teh boarder and tell em to lie so I couldn't cross over. I mean it was like being in hell cuz I had no one else there. Even time where she had locked me out the house cuz i was leaving/ going for a walk after i fight, and she had my birth certificate. Which she showed and cept. Which I couldnt take it. I slammed my forearm against the DOUBLE LAYED GLASS and busted it through. Which caused me to get stitches on my lower right arm about 2-3 inches above me elbow. As shit calmed down I got a ride from one of the women at the help place they had there. And she was gorgeous to me. And even it wasn't gaming or cheating it was just being with a person or women who was just nice where she didn't provoke me and I could be myself. It was messed up cuz im one nicest guys around and iv never done anything like this ever. And all my friends couldnt believe it. One bad choice of going up there almost got me in jail on a million things. They wanted to to go to jail up there. It was hell. But through it all it made me so much of a man. Just doing what I did and surviving. Now im just trying to find a woman who is nice like me and can get along without so much drama.

Plus the ex is trying to say i got her pregnant and i wouldn't even have sex with her cuz i began to despise her so much. She admitted to saying i beat her up and crap then when i talked to her she got all 'sad' and said I know i was lying i wanted to get you upset. Only to have her say she hasn't talked to anyone or looked at another guy since me. When on her msn after my Internet crashed had her name in like couple letters which had <3 someone elsses name. She lied and midn fucked me so much it's done. And by that alone women can cause hell but the shit in life is what makes you better guy. And I want to take what i went through and take it to heart. And make the best decisions possible and make a happy life as I BECOME the man I am going to be.

Much love <3

Suffering does not a man make. I've lived starving on the street in the middle of a Canadian winter. And I got off really lucky, because three men just like me died that year from hunger and exposure. That's the lowest point of my life; the only thing it was missing was people shooting at me, but to be honest, being held at knife-point and robbed for my food cache is close enough for me.

I could catalogue the lemons life has handed me, but I honestly don't think it would do anyone any good.

The most important thing I learned from the closest I shall ever be to true suffering is this: Everything is awesome. My life is a goddamned musical, and I appreciate every single day that I have a roof over my head, food in my gullet, and safety from knife-wielding whack-jobs. If those needs are met, I'm willing to be content with whatever else life throws my way.

I don't think that makes me a man, though.

I think what makes me a man is the willingness to look suffering in the face and scream FUCK YOU at the top of my lungs. The willingness to do everything in my power to keep myself and the people I love most from having to experience it. To me, being a man is about responsibility.

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Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud